As an "outsider" to the world of "hardcore" swimming ...

Hi, Tom, I agree with what the others have posted here, i.e., that there can be an appearance of cliquishness, which is really just an artifact of people who have corresponded so regularly becoming an internet peer group of sorts. About 7 years ago, I was a very active poster here, and then for whatever reason, I drifted away for a reasonably long time, then came back a year or two ago. Many of the regulars had changed in the interlude, and I definitely felt that sense of being sort of--not excluded, exactly--but just kind of out of the mainstream and ignorant of who everybody was and what the various relationships were. I have found that if you just bull your way through with an absolute indifference to what anyone else thinks, you can affix yourself like a barnacle on the bosom of the USMS discussion forums. Pretty soon, even the most sensitive of readers will give up trying to brush you off. For what it's worth, I posted a poll not too long ago about peoples' backgrounds in swimming, and it seemed that a very sizable chunk had little competitive experience before masters. I also think most would agree with you that the benefits of swimming probably do outweigh the glory of competition. I mean, let's face it: Making the top 10 in the 400 SCM freestyle in the 55-59 age group, something I am personally hoping to do, is nonetheless an accomplishment on a par, if perhaps a bit lower, than having a schnauzer that wins "Best in Breed" in a small regional dog pageant. Sure, I would love to be able to brag about my Best in Breed schnauzer medal, should I be lucky enough to win this, but I think most of us realize that sic gloria fugit, which loosely translated means "glory is sick, f... it". Perhaps it would make an interesting thread to include a Dramatis Personnae of some of the regulars. Let me see: Jim Thornton--spiritual leader of USMS Paul Smith--a member of Posse Comitatus living in Arizona and being chased by federal marshals who are afraid to pursue him into the pool The Fortress--she who must be obeyed SwimStud--a breaststroker from the UK, where bathing is an annual ritual and thus his swimming really only took off once he arrived on our shores CreamPuff--the one acolyte whom the spiritual leader would most like to take under his be-hassocked wing Chris Stevenson--one of the few very fast and very smart swimmers on this forum Pwolf66, aka, The Hulk--Paladin in a B70 Ian Smith--the Canadian wonder who honed his sprinting skills on the squash courts of Manitoba Geek and Gull--nice seeming fellows who may or may not harbor fugitives like Paul Smith but also helped establish the so-called NSF or non-swimming forum (correct me if i am wrong) BlackBeards Peg--an Aztec descendant who would be appalled, I am certain, by his ancestors' religious practices Leonard Jansen and Peter Cruise--unusually witty fellows Ande--the swimming coach we all wish we had on deck at our pools Frank Thompson--the unofficial historian of the league who can tell you, with an idiot savant's fluency, the splits guys swam during high school meets in the late 60s GeoChuck--ditto, only in this case, it's the late 1860s. Okay, I realize I have left out the most interesting people, and I may have gotten many of the above mixed up. Is Paul Smith really the Posse Comitatus member, or is that me? I can't always remember that well after we do an "all hypoxic sets" workout. Ah, it doesn't matter. They can't get rid of me. This barnacle has his purchase on the bosom, and it won't be budged. I urge you, Tom, to affix yourself thusly on these forums, too.

It is frustrating at times. Over 90% of USMS swimmers swim for fitness and don't compete, but the magazine and forums tend to obsess over competition. It's crazy, and that disconnect can be maddening. I've been meaning to complain about it, but I'm usually too whipped from swim practice and a beer after. The great thing is that you are among swimmers, and swimmers will bend over backwards to help other swimmers, no matter who you are or are not. If you're not getting what you want, just ask. How to fix the magazine to reflect the needs and interests of the vast majority of USMS, I don't know.

I can kind of see what you mean, but it's not as bad as it looks. I would say there's two parts: the clique and the competition. The clique is not really a bad thing at all. If you post regularly, people will get used to your personality and you'll just be part of it. Most online forums are like that. It's also good to go to meets so you can actually see people in person. The competition is not as fun sometimes, even for a competitive person like myself. I think this forum is generally way too obsessed with records and rankings. There's quite a bit of hero worship, too. Some people get status just from being fast. I've seen plenty of cases of "The Amazing X" where X is the name of an ordinary person who happens to swim fast. I called out Jonathan Miller for this once, but he's not the only one. Really it's a minor issue compared to the very friendly attitude that's the norm. There's also a focus on individual improvement. Plenty of praise for anyone who makes an improvement or a commitment. The comparison thing that bugs me is limited in that it tends to only happen in a positive way ("You're so fast!"). Of course this leads to false modesty ("Nooo you're so much faster!") which makes me want to puke.

Anyone who SWIMS, is not an outsider even though others may write things that make you feel that way. What it is is more familiarity. Trust me, I know. I had been on this board for a long time and got criticized because my background could not be "verified" by some. But for the most part, everyone here, I mean everyone, loves to hear from people just starting out, needing help, offering suggestions, and contributing to content of threads. Everyone who swims has something to offer and most do listen intently. I know this because I was where you were awhile back. I have been a swimmer my entire life and have found that I actually enjoy the newcomers' comments as much as the oldtimers' comments. Swimmers do have heart and my suggestion is to jump in whenever you can to the subjects. Even with questions. Questions bring thought, thought brings insight, and those with experience will share. Thus, everyone benefits. I am 61 and have been competing since age 9. I have never known a swimmer yet in my life to be a snob, maybe because we are all so pooped from the workouts. Please don't stop contributing nor stop with any questions. Many with swim experience feel good in their hearts to give advice to others. Stay with the people here, they have a lot to offer. Donna

It seems like it's often a small group of people... Jim Thornton, if I recall correctly, noted a while ago that there were a lot of people lurking around the board and not really participating.... For the record, 205 different users have posted on these forums since December 7th (one week ago). That's quite a few. I'm not one of the "hardcore" swimmers by any stretch of the imagination. I usually finish last in my age group (as well as most of the other age groups, too, ha, ha). But I don't feel like an outsider. As far as the "clique" thing goes, there are a lot of inside jokes but I think that's partly because a lot of these people go back 5 years or more on these forums. And if you don't "get" what's going on, just send a PM to one of the posters and they'll generally fill you in. Anna Lea

Hi Stfom! I've been lurking around for quite a while without contributing. It enhances my air of mystery. :canada: (there's no Australian emoticon. This was the closest I could find)

Jim, you forgot me! Chicken of the Sea = lukewarm water

:canada: (there's no Australian emoticon. This was the closest I could find) Shouldn't the flag be upside down and with corks hanging from it? :D

Good idea!

From the USMS website: Do I have to compete? Everyone has his or her own reason for belonging - health, fitness, camaraderie, fun, the thrill of competition, travel and coaching are but a few. About 30% of Masters swimmers compete in swimming meets on a regular basis. For those who are serious competitors, there are an incredible number of opportunities to test your skill and conditioning. Short Course (25 yard and 25 meter) and Long Course (50 meter) pool meets, lake and ocean open water swims, postal meets, special events and international championships are all part of an ambitious program of Masters swimming. OK, it's 30%, not 10%. My memory ain't what it used to be. My point was meant as a helping hand to sftom. Most of us are here for fitness, and the competition nature of most of the posts shouldn't dissuade him. Yes, it can be frustrating to wade through the competition stuff to get to the fitness stuff, but I never suggested that anybody should change what they are posting. Take a chill pill, Fortress. Forums are what they are, and a person can take them or leave them. I enjoy the open discussion and varying views. Some people take a differing view as a personal attack, and that is not correct, and certainly not what I meant. Looking at SWIMMER magazine, excluding advertisements, the recent issue had 15 pages of what I considered 'competition' articles, including the 'From the editor'. There were about ten pages of fitness and noncompetition articles, including the five pages of 'Butterfly Checkup'. That's 60% of the magazine focused on 30% of the readers.