As an "outsider" to the world of "hardcore" swimming ...
Former Member
I swim a lot and really enjoy it. It's something I've done all of my life, growing up in Southern California, and it's my main form of exercise. I'm good at it, but I do it primarily for health and enjoyment.
I've noticed from lurking around this board for several years that there seems to be a very self-congratulatory, cliquish tone to many threads and posts. It seems like it's often a small group of people who post relentlessly, as if they are engaged in some sort of private conversation where they're trying to outdo each other.
Maybe I'm the only one who feels that way. Maybe that's part and parcel of the world of "hardcore" competitive swimmers. Or maybe it's because there wouldn't be anything else to talk about, unless there weren't a constant focus on who's the "best" at this or that.
A race is something that happens once in a while, whereas a lifetime of swimming lasts, well, a lifetime. Yes, it's great to break a certain time in a certain race, but it's also great to have the self-discpline to keep at a daily swimming program and work on improving one's technique and endurance. Both are valid, and, to my mind, neither is more worthy of praise than the other.
Jim Thornton, if I recall correctly, noted a while ago that there were a lot of people lurking around the board and not really participating. If that is the case, I would propose that may be due to the general off-putting tone of things on here. (I won't give examples at this point, although I could.)
BTW, speaking only for myself, fitness/health is my main reason for swimming too. It's just that competition is a way to motivate me to be in better shape than otherwise. There is no question that I am fitter than I would be if I never swam in meets, though others obviously may differ in what motivates them to work out.
This falls in line with my thinking about swimming/fitness/competition. I've found that going to 3-4 meets throughout the year keeps me motivated to continue to improve my fitness. For myself, if I didn't compete, it would be much easier to blow off practice when it gets cold outside, or to back off during a hard set. Competition helps me to stay focused.
And even though I swim at meets, I know that ultimately I am competing with myself (I think most swimmers do this), because there are just too many "crazy-fast" swimmers out there who are both older and younger than myself.
:bliss:
I swim a lot and really enjoy it. It's something I've done all of my life, growing up in Southern California, and it's my main form of exercise. I'm good at it, but I do it primarily for health and enjoyment.
I've noticed from lurking around this board for several years that there seems to be a very self-congratulatory, cliquish tone to many threads and posts. It seems like it's often a small group of people who post relentlessly, as if they are engaged in some sort of private conversation where they're trying to outdo each other.
I may be wrong, but aren't most forums somewhat this way? I participate in a few and have always noticed being a "newbie" on a board is intimidating. If you check out any of the Scout college sports boards they are a good example. Many forums are a whole lot harsher--complete with expletives, name calling and trolling. This one seems pretty tame to me. As for people being "self-congratulatory," I see it more as people being excited about their accomplishments. I think most on this board are excited about others' accomplishments as well (whether they be World Records or completing first practices). To me, that's a good thing.
That said, I think you just have to jump in and post. Eventually you will become part of the discussion (even if it's just being the cranky devil's advocate :angel:).
Most forums are this way. The trick is to start posting and soon, you are "one of them". I have posted on and off for about the same time I have been swimming, 9 years, and found that everyone but one has been good hearted.
It is frustrating at times. Over 90% of USMS swimmers swim for fitness and don't compete, but the magazine and forums tend to obsess over competition. It's crazy, and that disconnect can be maddening. I've been meaning to complain about it, but I'm usually too whipped from swim practice and a beer after.
You've been meaning to complain about the forums? Really? And on what basis? There is no "rule" that competitive masters swimmers can only post 10% of the time or discuss racing or competition 10% of the time. If you want to talk about fitness swimming, feel free to start your own thread. But there is really no need to call us or our desire to compete or discuss competition "crazy"in a pejorative way. (Now, being called "crazy" in a nice way, is fine.)
If you are not interested in the trash talk or post-meet discussions or other postings, don't read them. Competitive masters swimmers are an obsessive subculture. Many come to this forum for workouts and/or to discuss technique, racing, tech suits etc. or to engage in light hearted banter. I have no idea why it would be beneficial to eliminate this from the forum, especially when many of these same swimmer regularly offer advice to competitive and fitness swimmers alike. Similarly, most competitive swimmers are pretty respectful about people who swim for fitness (and in fact also swim for fitness themselves) -- except of course about noodlers, who would not be reading this forum anyway as "noodling" is not "swimming." So why begrudge us our chit chat?
As for the alleged clique-ish aspect of the forums, many of us know each other personally and have either met or see each other regularly at meets. Would you feel better, sftom, if we pretended to be strangers?
Why would you say something like that?
Anyway, my hope is that our magazine will more accurately reflect the 90% of the people who are already 'buying' it.
Welcome to the forum!!
So make some suggestions to the folks who produce the magazine about what is important to you as a fitness swimmer. Submit some articles.
Maybe I don't understand but how are pictures showing proper technique, nutrition tips, example workouts, etc. not relevant to all USMS members? Sure, there are sections that are devoted to competitions but to say that the entire magazine ignores the 'over 90% that doesn't compete' is incorrect.
A race is something that happens once in a while, whereas a lifetime of swimming lasts, well, a lifetime. Yes, it's great to break a certain time in a certain race, but it's also great to have the self-discpline to keep at a daily swimming program and work on improving one's technique and endurance. Both are valid, and, to my mind, neither is more worthy of praise than the other.
Sftom...it's sad and interesting that you see the comradarie that has been built between members on this forum thru a shared passion for swimming/competing as somehow "hardcore" and a subtle (or not) jab at non-competing masters as lesser somehow.
Teams, competition, rivalries, bets, good natured ribbing all act as "glue" of sorts for those of us who share the same passion for fitness as yourself. I also would suggest to you that whether you compete or not...working out with swimmers who do and coaches that adjust training cycles based on competition improves everyone's level of fitness.
So the next time your reading on this forum try and look at the banter between those of us who enjoy racing not as a put down to folks who don't...but rather an oppurtunity. If you ever choose to attend a meet as a competitor, volunteer or just to check it out and tag along with some masters afterwards you would probably be surprised at how much fun people are having making new friends, setting goals and providing support to keep at the training.
Lot's of great folks here (Thornton being the exception...stay far away) and were glad you joined us.
Anyone who thinks our magazine is too competition focused obviously hasn't opened it lately. It does a nice job of mixing competition with fitness. The technique section applies to both.
I'm not sure what to make of the request that we stop acting like we enjoy competing and talking trash to each other. I've made a lot of friends on this forum, and a few enemies, so I think this is a fun place.
I've made a lot of friends on this forum, and a few enemies, so I think this is a fun place.
It's more like a LOT of enemies and a few people who feel sorry for you!
Over 90% of USMS swimmers swim for fitness and don't compete, but the magazine and forums tend to obsess over competition.
What would you prefer the magazine to be like? (This is an honest question, I'm not trying to be hostile.)
There is little that can be done to regulate the topics of the forums -- it would be fairly silly to ban discussions of swimming competition in the same way that politics or religion is banned -- but I agee that the magazine ought to reflect the broad interests of the membership and not a vocal minority.
I'm curious how you came up with "over 90%." I agree there are a many fitness-only swimmers who are uninterested or intimidated by competition, but I don't think it is quite that high. (Seems I've heard numbers in the range of 60-65% USMS members do not go to meets.)
BTW, speaking only for myself, fitness/health is my main reason for swimming too. It's just that competition is a way to motivate me to be in better shape than otherwise. There is no question that I am fitter than I would be if I never swam in meets, though others obviously may differ in what motivates them to work out.
There is certainly a social aspect too; there are a lot of people I see at meets, or friends I've made, that I see nowhere else. And occasionally there is a blast from the past: I've unexpectedly come across old friends or teammates. At Worlds in 2006, I saw my swim coach from when I was a 14-year-old in Greece, which was pretty cool and totally a surprise.
