USA Swimming proposes rule limiting suits

At Worlds in 2006 one of the talks at the sports medicine section had information on suit buoyancy(this was pre LZR).It showed all the tech suits were buoyant and that the Arena kept it's buoyancy longest.

I think it is easy to get derailed by needing to respond to Dolphin 2s lack of information instead of the topic.I don't think anyone should be banned from the forum for ignorance,but sometimes I think it is best to just ignore someone rather than rise to the bait.My favorite saying,which has stood me well in many situations,is"Don't wrestle with pigs,you just get dirty and the pigs love it." By the way,I don't mind using my real name on this forum. I suggested this very same thing early in this thread. And as much as I want to respond to some of the incredibly stupid things said, I restrain myself. Regarding Dolphin 2: 1 - He's not a competitive swimmer (and I wonder if he actually can swim) yet he's an expert on tech suits. 2 - He doesn't have any children yet he thinks he's qualified to tell us how to be better parents. I think the best response to his future ranting is to totally ignore him and not even respond to his posts. Just my :2cents:

Chris, And yet I'm the only one who's attempted an answer ... You just didn't like my answer that it might not be "perfectly legal." So the question is: Is it unethical to wear multiple suits that are not explicitly prohibited when such conduct likely violates the intent and perhaps the letter of the law? Or, more neutrally perhaps: Is it unethical to wear multiple suits when it is nonetheless legal? Since ethics and the law are not co-extensive, and ethics concerns what is good for the individual and society, I would say, yes, it is unethical to wear multiple tech suits. There is simply a difference between embracing expected and sanctioned technological advances in a sport (ethical) and piling up on legal suits to exploit a statutory loophole and gain a legally dubious buoyancy advantage against one's competitors (unethical). It also appears that those doing the latter are rushing to get their swims (and records) in, knowing that their conduct will ultimately be banned. I don't see how such conduct is a positive "good" for either individual swimmers or the society of swimmers. That said, I don't think it rises to the level of being hugely morally repugnant. Perhaps just morally ambiguous and a bit dodgey.

FINA wants research on LZR, other high-tech suits Fri Dec 12, 2008 By Associated Press FINA wants more research done on high-tech swim suits like the Speedo LZR worn by Jason Lezak in Beijing. ROME (AP) -- Swimming's world governing body is requesting new research into the high-tech suits that have caused such a stir, and USA Swimming has proposed restrictions on their use. "We have to be sure we are doing the best thing possible for the sport, together with the manufacturers," FINA executive director Cornel Marculescu told The Associated Press this week. FINA consistently upheld the design of the new suits -- specifically Speedo's LZR Racer -- in the run-up to the Beijing Games. But as world record after world record has been broken -- mostly by swimmers wearing the LZR -- complaints about the suits have only intensified. Critics of the high-tech suits believe they create illegal levels of buoyancy. FINA is looking at the thickness of the new suits and seeking a scientific test that will determine whether suits are "credible" or not, Marculescu said. "We are in contact with a very important university that is doing some research for us, and we will have the information at the beginning of next year," he said. He would not disclose which university is performing the research. USA Swimming submitted the following recommendations to FINA: "In swimming competitions, the competitor must wear only one swimsuit in one or two pieces which shall not cover the neck, extend past the shoulder, nor past the knee. No additional items, like arm bands or leg bands, shall be regarded as parts of a swimsuit." During the Beijing Games, many swimmers wore two suits, another factor that could increase buoyancy. Several swimmers put on an extra suit for decency reasons, with some of the new high-tech suits so thin and tight they can split apart as swimmers put them on just before races. USA Swimming also wants manufacturers to ensure that approved swimsuits are available to all competitors for 12 months prior to each Olympics. "The purpose of these recommendations is to encourage FINA to implement a more thorough and scientific method of reviewing and approving suits," USA Swimming president Jim Wood said in a statement provided to the AP. At the Olympics, nearly every American swimmer used the LZR, and U.S. coach Mark Schubert said beforehand that he wanted every member of his team to wear the Speedo, even if they were under contract with another manufacturer. In May, California-based TYR Sport filed a federal lawsuit alleging that rival Speedo had conspired with USA Swimming to stifle competition and lure top athletes away from other companies. All the American swimmers under contract with Nike before the games switched to Speedo, as Nike effectively pulled out of the market. But USA Swimming is now expressing some reservations. The organization decided in September to ban the new suits in 12-and-under competitions, effective in May. The new suits can cost upward of $300 and availability has been limited, meaning developing swimmers with the right resources or connections have an advantage over others. "We have encouraged FINA to sit down with coaches and suit manufacturers on this process and are recommending legislation to limit the amount of body covered by the suit at future competitions," Wood said. "In addition, we are encouraging the 12-month rule to ensure an even playing field to all athletes, allowing them a full year to practice in the suit, and to have their suits properly fitted." Speedo is a top sponsor for USA Swimming, and Stuart Isaac, a Speedo representative in the United States, said the language proposed by the Americans wouldn't necessarily ban the LZR. "It would impact a couple versions of the LZR, but it doesn't specifically address the technical issues," Isaac said. "We already have versions in those guidelines." Companies make the high-tech suits in various shapes, with some stopping at the knee and shoulder and others covering swimmers' entire arms and legs. "It's just one small aspect of the debate," Isaac said. "The technical issues need to be considered in a much broader dialogue, and we're hoping that's what FINA is trying to do." FINA has invited 21 manufacturers to a Feb. 20 meeting at its headquarters in Lausanne, Switzerland. Rule changes could be submitted at the FINA Bureau meeting in March -- perhaps in time for the 2009 World Championships in Rome, scheduled for July 18 to Aug. 2. www.universalsports.com/ViewArticle.dbml

for what it's worth yesterday in my blog andesswimmingblog.blogspot.com I wrote "Tomorrow I'm going to do a fast 50 free in practice while wearing 3 or 4 tech suits, we'll see what happens." Today I tested swimming fast while wearing 3 blue seventy suits Is anyone from the USMS Leadership or Rules Group following this and related threads? USA swimming has a well publicized position on the changing the rules regarding the new swim/speed suits. Personally, I would like our organization to take a stand or a position regarding the suits and rules with respect to our wishes and perspectives as discussed in this and related threads. Given the importance of this issue, I expect and hope that USMS would formulate a reasonable and well thought out position prior to FINA's rule change forecast in the spring 2009. Personally, I believe that USA swimming has a reasonable position, but I would add the following: a. no multiple suit use (except for Ande's experiment - better dealt with by a latin hypercube). b. no suit modifications. c. Allow ankle length suits, but prohibit arm coverage BTW, I understand that there are "concept" suits (not related to swimming) that have the potential, via some biofeedback mechanism, to postpone or mitigate the effects of fatigue. I also saw another post that mentioned a nano-fabric material that is hydrophobic (much like an article about water lillies in a recent SciAm). My point is that the current generation of swim skin/speed suits are merely a manifestation of technology and that we should expect further performance enhancing developments. The critical question is: "How will our organizational bodies that govern our sport anticipate and deal with both the current and future advances in technology?"

I agree that the multi suit phenomenon is wrong. Banning swimmers from wearing a tank suit (women) or a brief (men) under the tech suit, may be taking things a bit far, but I understand the need to make it easy to officiate. What I don't understand is why USA swimming is suddenly so against leg suits, given that full body suits have been worn ever since Speedo came out with the first Fastskin. The FSII that went from wrist to ankle was popular for a few years and there was no talk of banning those suits. Trying to protect the integrity of the sport by legislating some of the loopholes seems prudent. Suddenly deciding that a suit can't go below the knee seems silly. Trying to roll back technology that's already been approved and used in international competition is too little too late.

I'm surprised Dolphin 2 doesn't understand the stigma thing about Speedo briefs. But then again....why should I be surprised he doesn't understand something about competitive swimming? It's because briefs look like underwear - and more like panties than BVDs. So boys have always been a bit sensitive about walking around on the deck with so little coverage. Yes - non-swimmers DO make fun of boys wearing briefs. Always have, probably always will. Hey Hofffam: Male swimmers have been wearing briefs and women have been wearing bikinis for at least 50 years now and there was no problem about them "Looking like underwear" until the a few people in the "Tabloid Media" started promoting the idea of that they were "immodest" and making fun of them. Briefs and bikins were in fact introduced (possibly by Adolf Keifer as I recall) to get rid of the "Taking a bath with your clothes on" sensation from the previous style of suits that had more coverage. When I was in high school back in lates 60's and 70's, briefs were the standard uniform for competitive and recreational swimming and everyone weared them without any hesitation what so ever -even at public pools. In fact, guys really loved wearing briefs because they thought it made them look attractive to girls and it was part of the "Swimmer's Body" status symbol. It was unheard of them looking "funny" until the Tabloid Media started making a big stink about it -and like a bunch of walruses clapping their paws on an iceberg, some of the members of the mindless americans went along with it. :argue: However as I said previously, jammers and tech suits are now getting a load of attention as porn wear and I'm waiting to make fun of them too!!! :banana: Dolphin 2

Back in the 70s I weared bored shorts over my spedo any time but practice. Most men I knowed weared skwared leg suites and women weared one-peace suites with the front skirt. I can't speak for all competitive swimmers like Dolphin 2 can, but back in the 1970s all the competitive swimmers I swam with weared Speedos at workouts and meets only and weared trunks and board shorts to the regular pool or beach.

I can't speak for all competitive swimmers like Dolphin 2 can, . You must remember o geekness, dolpin knows everything about everything, so us mere mortals only know things by actual experience because we have had to get out and due things by first hand accounts, where dolphin has been able to spend hours on a computer reading about something he hasn't tried to do.

a. no multiple suit use I imagine USMS will follow USA-S' lead on this. But in case anyone is listening, I would argue that "modesty" suits should be allowed under tech suits. The NCAA rule prohibiting them is silly, IMO.