Ok, one more freestyle arm question

I've been trying to revamp my freestyle after seeing a videotape of myself :eeew: I've been watching the DVD of Karlyn Pipes-Nielsen. There were a couple of things that hit home that I was doing wrong and i think i'm correctly. Perfect example is that i was crossing the center line. I've been faithfully doing the heads up freestyle drill where you finish swimming normally. When i first started doing this, the wider arms felt strange, now they don't. It's been fun to have something just click and feel right. But i'm struggling with the initial pull. I know i'm loosing power and think it is because i'm dropping my shoulder. Anyone have drills to force me to get this part correct so that eventually, it will feel normal? There is a quick catch drill that you can do to help with this phase of the pull. Essentially what you would do is elongate the time that you enter in the water, fully extend on your axis and as soon as you are fully extended get your forearm vertical as quickly as possible (you can measure this by saying the word "quick"). There might be a couple of swimmers that don't like this drill depending on durability of your shoulders, etc... Overall, though, in my opinion you need to find a coach that will consistently work with you if you are looking for the technique aspect of the strokes...again, just my opinion. All the best!

working on really long, smooth strokes, using a powerful pull. This is definitely the key to freestyle; the elongated stroke with max effort and efficiency during the pull phase (as long as the pull technique is semi-correct)!

This is definitely the key to freestyle; the elongated stroke with max effort and efficiency during the pull phase (as long as the pull technique is sem-correct)! How would you define "semi-correct" or "correct" pull tech?

How would you define "semi-correct" or "correct" pull tech? getting your forearm vertical or at least making the attempt to get the forearm vertical and not sweeping under your body.

getting your forearm vertical or at least making the attempt to get the forearm vertical and not sweeping under your body. I think LindsayB said it is more of a early diagonal. From watching some tapes of phelps and others, it appears to be a bit more diagonal first, then vertical as everything takes it's place in the stroke.

My free is(was) probably flat style having learned in the 60's. Thanks to the above post(s) the light is beginning to dawn. Last night I tried letting my arm stretch fwd and sink down once it's in the water. This kinda naturally caused my shoulder to dip or roll as it sank. Once I wanted to grab the water I bent my wrist a little along with the elbow to get the hand perpendicular to travel. This caused a feeling like climbing over my arm/hand. Also I found that I'm not strong enough to keep my forearm totally vertical during the big part of the pull when my arm is straight down and a little past. I am definitely out of shape and this style is new to me. Hopefully the above rambling makes some sense and any advice/criticism is welcome and thanked in advance.

hey thanks typhoons and mj, i'll play around with these drills to see if something clicks. i really need to have someone stay on my butt about correct technique. but most of the masters coaches just give a workout without much in the way of corrections.

Could it be possible to swim with S shaped, going with hands all the way to thighs while training and then when swimming 50 or maybe 100 free in competition to go with straight pull till belly? Train with care not to damage shoulder, doing lots of rotation and exaggerating the movements. Then, come race day, just swim the the fastest possible, which probably means losing some style...I guess when swimming longer distances such as 400 and 8000 and open water one must keep the style and technique and stretch and do the complete S so as to last longer at a medium pace.

I would refer back to Ande's tip: train how you race, or something like that. If you train using the s-stroke, you are going to race with the s-stroke. The straight pull doesn't go to the belly, it goes all the way past the hips. The length of the stroke is the same, there is just no change in direction of the arm. If you don't try to force the EVF immediately, your shoulders should be okay as long as you don't push yourself too hard to fast. I think it really depends on your goals. If your goal is to swim for fun and to get better with the occasional meet, I would suggest the s-stroke, as it is a bit easier on the shoulders. If you want to compete regularly and look to really get some great times, possibly break some records or post some top times, I would suggest the straight pull. Either way, you should make sure to stretch regularly.

Hey, Michael, I was referring to the moment I start my recovery. If I am going fast, I tend to end the push sooner, isn't that what most people do? I think I have already asked this question here before. Assuming the last part of the stroke isn't accelerating as much, would it be more efficient to start a new cycle as your hands cross the belly button?