How much do you kick per week?

Here are a few things you could try: 1) Lose the kickboard. Yeah, it's sacrilege, but it forces a rigid-body style of kicking that is disconnected from the stroke. It probably works for people who already know how to integrate their kick, but not for those of us who were never taught how. 2) Put on a pair of fins and, with your body loose and relaxed, kick slowly face-down from the hip. Feel how each kick rotates your body slightly. Use a snorkel or just pop your head up now and then to breath. You can also do this on your back. Or vertically, in the deep end. 3) If you want to be a six-beat kicker, add two smaller kicks in between each body-rolling kick. (LEFT right left RIGHT left right...) If you are a two-beat kicker, just continue. Push down slightly on your chest if your legs start to sink. 4) Slide one hand out in front of you for a streamlined position. As the rotational kick on the same-side leg starts, begin to "catch" the water and anchor your arm. Repeat with other arm. Still go slowly to get the feel of things, don't worry about speed yet. 5) After you've gotten the hang of timing the catch with the same-side rotational leg kick, add in the recovering arm entering the water at the same time. Think of kicking your hand forward into streamline with the opposite leg. Hope this helps. I know where you're coming from. For years i just flapped my legs up and down and hoped for the best. Then I learned the simple two-beat kick, now I'm starting to add in a six-beat kick for shorter faster intervals. Thanks, it actually does help. Your advice to "kick slowly face-down from the hip. Feel how each kick rotates the body slightly" is particularly helpful. I don't like kick boards either but I don't have a snorkel and lifting my head messes with my rhythm. Generally, I just place my fingers ever so lightly on the kick board and use it as the tiniest of props to maintain balance. Then I kick face down in the water and breathe to the side. If I lose the kick board entirely I tend to lift my head to the front. I am slowly learning to kick at slower speeds. A year ago my kick was practically non existent. I had a two-beat cross over kick. Now when I am swimming slower sets I can maintain a 4 beat kick (I think - you see I am not sure about this as I have no underwater footage of myself) and sometimes a 6 beat kick. At the very least, I am not crossing over anymore. I have managed to eliminate the crossover thing almost entirely when I am swimming at slower speeds. This has taken tremendous concentration over the past year. Recently I been able to even maintain it at three quarter pace. The problem is, when I speed up to race pace, it all flies out the window. I think it has to do with my rate of arm turnover. My legs just can't keep up so they do their own thing and go back to lashing out a thump every now and then to fit in with the arm rhythm (when they can) and probably go back to crossing over. I say probably because I am not entirely sure either. When I race a 50 I am not really aware of much that is going on. It is all reduced 'feeling good' in the water or 'feeling bad' in the water. It is all over so quickly there is no time to be aware of anything except a general feeling of connection or disconnection. But I think I am getting there. The things that have helped thus far are: increasing ankle flexibility I have been working on this the past year and it really has paid off. I can now feel my foot pushing the water backwards ever so slightly rather than towards the bottom of the pool. advice to kick from the hip Simple as this sounds, it was a revelation to me. focusing on my kick the entire workout (from the warm up to the warm down) pressing down with the chest and maintaining a face-down position This helps to keep the hips up keeping the body long and extending my reach This helps to keep the legs long and toes pointed straight and keeps the hips up So now I need to work up to Paul's advice of putting this all together at race pace. I think I am getting there. It is happening slowly, though. It feels like I am relearning how to swim.

Your kick set looks good to me, except that you use fins throughout. I did 1/3 without fins :D Yeah I'm going to try to do more without but it's too time consuming for me without fins. I may be able to start hopping into the water for a kick set while I am on break at work.

PLEASE tell me HOW. My kicking with a board has improved but I am still not integrating it properly into my full stroke. It still feels as if my legs and upper body are working independently of one another. Syd...all I can tell you is that the answer is not to kick more...but rather to swim more sets at race pace practicing "over-kicking". Stud...saying you can't do a hard kick set over a 25 is the same as saying you can't do a swim set over a 25. Bottom line is it hurts and you have to push thru on hard kick sets to improve..and just like quality speed work in general it needs to be done at the start of workout not at the end when so many coaches/swimmers "plug-in" kicking. Try doing broken 100 & 200 "power kick" sets. Just like a normal broken swim with 10-15 seconds rest a the 25 or 50 but instead of swimming push off deep and kick as hard/far/fast as you can nderwater and when you need to breathe surface and swim easy free to the wall. Try this 1-2x a week (2-3 days rest between) for 4 weeks and come back and tell me about your kick!

Here are a few things you could try: 1) Lose the kickboard. Yeah, it's sacrilege, but it forces a rigid-body style of kicking that is disconnected from the stroke. It probably works for people who already know how to integrate their kick, but not for those of us who were never taught how. While much of this discussion included comments on fins, very few talked about kickboards. I abhore them for the reason Ripple gives above -- it's a different kind of kicking than when you swim. For my kicking, I'm without a board and generally do: * single side or rotating side to side for free and back kicking ... try to simulate the rotation and different angles you kick at during your swim * dolphin kick almost always on my back or side ... as much of it underwater as possible * breaststroke kick on my back, arms down at my sides. I'm a really crappy breaststroker and I find that this position helps me best focus on getting my legs up and out in the best position possible. I never use fins, but I also never use paddles or buoys. I guess I need to get on board with the toys, but I've found going old school with just my suit and goggles (I don't like caps either) allows me to focus as much as possible on swimming in a body position and with the "equipment" that I will have when competing.

As opposed to your longer races??????? Paul, if you ever swam anything longer than the occasional 200 free, you'd realize that kicking is highly overrated. Besides, if Michelle ever learned to kick, I wouldn't be able to flip the counter fast enough to keep up with her.:notworthy:

PLEASE tell me HOW. My kicking with a board has improved but I am still not integrating it properly into my full stroke. It still feels as if my legs and upper body are working independently of one another. Here are a few things you could try: 1) Lose the kickboard. Yeah, it's sacrilege, but it forces a rigid-body style of kicking that is disconnected from the stroke. It probably works for people who already know how to integrate their kick, but not for those of us who were never taught how. 2) Put on a pair of fins and, with your body loose and relaxed, kick slowly face-down from the hip. Feel how each kick rotates your body slightly. Use a snorkel or just pop your head up now and then to breath. You can also do this on your back. Or vertically, in the deep end. 3) If you want to be a six-beat kicker, add two smaller kicks in between each body-rolling kick. (LEFT right left RIGHT left right...) If you are a two-beat kicker, just continue. Push down slightly on your chest if your legs start to sink. 4) Slide one hand out in front of you for a streamlined position. As the rotational kick on the same-side leg starts, begin to "catch" the water and anchor your arm. Repeat with other arm. Still go slowly to get the feel of things, don't worry about speed yet. 5) After you've gotten the hang of timing the catch with the same-side rotational leg kick, add in the recovering arm entering the water at the same time. Think of kicking your hand forward into streamline with the opposite leg. Hope this helps. I know where you're coming from. For years i just flapped my legs up and down and hoped for the best. Then I learned the simple two-beat kick, now I'm starting to add in a six-beat kick for shorter faster intervals.

Hey, I did the 400 LC this summer. :argue: QUOTE] How long after the 1st 50 did you realize this was a mistake?

After the 1st 200 I would have been ready to stop.

...kicking just for kicking's sake is a waste of time ... done in ways that help integrate it to the desired stroke. PLEASE tell me HOW. My kicking with a board has improved but I am still not integrating it properly into my full stroke. It still feels as if my legs and upper body are working independently of one another.

Here's a nice video showing what a great kick can do for you. Specifically check out Nathan Adrian's anchor leg. www.floswimming.org/.../77121 As my wife said, it doesn't even look like he's in the water, more like surfing on top of it.