What does it mean when we look at the performance of the US men's swimming team at Beijing without Phelps....... i.e. without the man carrying the team? Is he merely the "Vince Young" of a slightly above average football Team?
We essentially lose the 400 free relay, 100 fly (Ian moves form 4th to 3rd), 200 IM and 400 IM (Lochted moves to silver), 200 free and 200 fly. That's makes 6 less golds and one extra bronze.
The US would effectively only win 2 individual events...... the 200 and 100 back.
Is Phelps a true representation of the state of US men's swimming or and exception?
www.nbcolympics.com/.../index.html
Former Member
A recent study showed that 60% of black children do not know how to swim. USA Swimming was involved in the study.
www.msnbc.msn.com/.../
Of course demographics has a great deal to do with the fact that only 2% of the kids in USA-S are black. Access to pools is surely a big factor. A year round pool is expensive.
But just because it isn't easy doesn't mean we shouldn't try to improve minority participation in the sport.
For Fort - I too have nothing to offer re: girls and PT other than anecdotal info. But the high school age swimmer kids here hang out with other swimmer kids - both genders. The kids I know complain about tests and homework way more than they complain about workouts.
A recent study showed that 60% of black children do not know how to swim. USA Swimming was involved in the study.
...Of course demographics has a great deal to do with the fact that only 2% of the kids in USA-S are black. Access to pools is surely a big factor. A year round pool is expensive.
But just because it isn't easy doesn't mean we shouldn't try to improve minority participation in the sport...
That first statement is appalling. Kids don't have to get into competitive swim racing to learn how to swim, and they don't necessarily need an expensive state-of-the-art indoor pool.
I grew up in a low-income family/neighborhood, and my brothers and I had basic Red Cross lessons at a no-frills outdoor neighborhood pool that was only open from June to the end of August. Okay, we didn't become particularily good swimmers, but we had the basic how-not-to-drown-when-you-fall-out-of-a-boat skills.
Am I the only one that wonders if the YMCA has sort of drifted away from it's original intents? I once saw an old photo of actor William Shatner as a teenager, teaching inner city kids to swim at a Montreal YMCA. I couldn't help contrasting it to the exclusive and expensive downtown YMCA where I live. Even the suburban ones are pricey. Or is that just where I live? I can't imagine how a low-income single parent could afford them.
From the article:
The lead researcher, Professor Richard Irwin, said one key finding was the influence of parents' attitudes and abilities. If a parent could not swim, as was far more likely in minority families than white families, or if the parent felt swimming was dangerous, then the child was far less likely to learn how to swim.
It isn't just demographics....
All children should learn to swim. At minimum it is a health and safety issue. And later in life - fear of water can be a social inhibitor. Beach recreation, boating, backyard pools, etc.
"Morally superior?" I don't see how we can say this about our sport. (Well, okay, unlike some other sports, we don't have to physically harm other people in pursuit of our goals. At least, not usually.)
But as far as what is special, the following come to mind and I'm sure others can add to them. In no particular order:
-- It is potentially a life-saving skill
-- It is a whole-body sport, which is healthy
-- It is a low-impact sport that can be enjoyed into a ripe old age
-- Related to this, one can begin at any age even if one is, ahem, pretty overweight, with less risk of injury
-- Swimming is good exercise and physical therapy for people with a number of common chronic ailments (eg arthritis, back problems, knee problems) and injuries
-- It plain feels good to be in the water
But sadly it lacks any "coolness" (except in Mark Gill's case), is really pretty boring and takes an incredilbe amount of work...
The Y's in my neck of the woods don't hand out free memberships.
I don't know if they are obtainable. I have tried, due to economic hardships caused by family medical problems. I was denied. I didn't workout in a pool for over 20 years.
They are a business. I respect thier need to protect the bottom line.
Scholarships based on economic need might help seed an interest in targeted communities.
Time to pony up the bread.
But sadly it lacks any "coolness" (except in Mark Gill's case), is really pretty boring and takes an incredilbe amount of work...
What, Speedos aren't cool?
On the plus side, it has a well-established beer-drinking culture.
On the plus side, it has a well-established beer-drinking culture.
Alas, that doesn't help the young teens on the cusp of quitting because they have no social life or "chi-lax" time. Or the girls who spend all their time in PT or plateau-ing in their mid-teens.
$72 a month for a family here, not to mention FREE: child care, kids center, teen rec center, home school program. And the list goes on, including swim lessons out the wazoo. You do pay a nominal fee for the lessons, but still, best value in town.
I think the Y will never turn away someone for financial reasons that wishes to join. Family membership here is $95/mo.
I dunno, Paul. I can think of a pretty cool 400 M Free relay and 100 Fly finishes recently.
Too bad those kinda things happen in the public eye only one or twice every 4 years or so.
Mark
Mark...I started a thread sometime back where beat up both USS & USMS for not having the vision to better market this sport knowing a once in a generation possiblity existed going into the Olympics that Phelps would make history....lots of excuses but the bottom line is swimming isn't marketed well if at all and in my opinion has done nothing to advance the sport to make it "cooler" and attract the same kids that Ken describes or in the case of Masters swimming that high school demogrpahic that doesn't make a college team and dissapears when they graduate not even know we exist.
Chris...you look cool in a Speedo....many of us look like overstuffed burritos!
Fort I wold argue the opposite....social time for many teens these days is playing video games.
Fort I wold argue the opposite....social time for many teens these days is playing video games.
Perhaps. But no video games in my house whatsoever.
As a parent of a teen boy and girl, the typical complaints I hear regarding lack of social life are usually from girls and usually involve wanting to see friends and doing things with friends more often. (For example, my kid had to stay home on Halloween because she had to get up before 6:00 am for a swim meet.) Plus, it seems to me that a huge percentage of teenage girls are in PT, which often doesn't work. Thus, they're practicing a lot, missing out on social things, crying about their times not improving at meets and in pain -- a deadly combo for continuing in a sport. So, in general, unlike GoodSmith, I'm more worried about teenage girls than boys.
