Mens swimming in the US

Perhaps. But no video games in my house whatsoever. As a parent of a teen boy and girl, the typical complaints I hear regarding lack of social life are usually from girls and usually involve wanting to see friends and doing things with friends more often. (For example, my kid had to stay home on Halloween because she had to get up before 6:00 am for a swim meet.) Plus, it seems to me that a huge percentage of teenage girls are in PT, which often doesn't work. Thus, they're practicing a lot, missing out on social things, crying about their times not improving at meets and in pain -- a deadly combo for continuing in a sport. So, in general, unlike GoodSmith, I'm more worried about teenage girls than boys. So is this any different than it was 20-30 Years ago for any of us who swam in high school? Video games are new to the equation but for the most part my social life revolved around the friends that I had made in swimming and water polo and since we all had the same basic schedules it didn't seem anhone was left out? One good thing about people who do get into swimming and stick with it is the ability to work hard/play hard...with 5, 6am workouts the nights (for some) may have been earlier but we learned to "make the bell"....don't think its a coincendence that swimmers almost always have the highest GPA's of any sport.

So is this any different than it was 20-30 Years ago for any of us who swam in high school? One good thing about people who do get into swimming and stick with it is the ability to work hard/play hard...with 5, 6am workouts the nights (for some) may have been earlier but we learned to "make the bell"....don't think its a coincendence that swimmers almost always have the highest GPA's of any sport. Perhaps not. I was much more of a nerd than my social butterfly daughter. I just hear an awful lot of chatter about how swimming is ungodly time consuming. One difference might be that, compared to 20-30 years ago, kids now have more competing activities, more homework, more AP classes, etc. Most endurance sport athletes have good GPAs. Crew and cross country are just as high as swimming around here. Lacrosse, football and basketball, those getting the college scholarships, are comparatively a bunch of dolts. (I just said that to annoy the anti-Title IX groupies). Hofffam, Here is fairly commonplace for girls in their early to mid teens to be in PT in a variety of sports. At least according to orthos I know and my own general observations (which are only anecdotal obviously).

I don't know how to say this without coming across as a complete bigot, but here goes. I think this push to include traditionally non represented folks in swimming (or chose your under-represented sport of choice) solely for the sake of "taking it to the streets" seems rather pointless if you don't intend on changing the basic nature of the sport to begin with. Accessibility and affordability are the two big handicaps for swimming participation. Both are expensive. Getting a bunch of under-represented kids to swim lessons once a week at a pool 20 miles away won't do it unless you build more pools, reduce the cost of swimming and make it less dependent on a very organized and affluent two-parent household base. Three-day away swim meets cost a lot of money and require multi parent families and they are still a colossal pain to figure out logistically. This does not in any way mesh with inner city youth. It takes almost nothing to play basketball or football but swimming is different. Obviously, the same thing can be said about tennis, golf, lacrosse, and increasingly baseball.

I can't imagine how a low-income single parent could afford them. I think the Y will never turn away someone for financial reasons that wishes to join. Family membership here is $95/mo.

But I ponder, what is really special about swimming versus any other sport and is our sport morally superior to others? "Morally superior?" I don't see how we can say this about our sport. (Well, okay, unlike some other sports, we don't have to physically harm other people in pursuit of our goals. At least, not usually.) But as far as what is special, the following come to mind and I'm sure others can add to them. In no particular order: -- It is potentially a life-saving skill -- It is a whole-body sport, which is healthy -- It is a low-impact sport that can be enjoyed into a ripe old age -- Related to this, one can begin at any age even if one is, ahem, pretty overweight, with less risk of injury -- Swimming is good exercise and physical therapy for people with a number of common chronic ailments (eg arthritis, back problems, knee problems) and injuries -- It plain feels good to be in the water

I hate that this country has become a place where we have to preface our thoughts with "I don't know how to say this without coming across as a complete bigot". You aren't racist or a bigot if you're simply applying facts and statistics to a situation. It's not as if you're saying black people shouldn't swim because they're all poor, and probably suck at it anyway since it isn't basketball. You're just saying that inner city kids are not typically in a position to participate in a sport with the logistics of swimming. There is nothing wrong with that, because it's true. If you haven't noticed, I agree with you.

The amount of minorities in competitive swimming really hasn't changed that much in the last 50 years...... too bad..... a lot of lost talent going to the Big 3 . Geek may be right..... with the economy the way it is, it may unfortunately remain a white man's venue for a long time to come. John

I don't know if anyone else has this reaction, but I am frankly alarmed that teen girls need PT to deal with their sports involvement. I know that the growth years are painful at times, but girls mature physically far sooner than boys (12-13 vs. 18-21), and should not be stressing their bodies to the breaking point with tacit approval from parents. If the coach is not amenable to a modified or reduced workload, then perhaps it is time to find a new sport. Muscle aches are common and to be accepted as progress in the sport, but joint injury is something that can follow for a lilfetime. This post is predicated on the assumption that the PT is actually necessary, and not a fashion treatment.

I think the lack of minority presence in US swimming has less to do with finances than some might think, as they are constantly bussing poor kids to the YMCA I used to swim at to take a dump in the pool (before anybody gets riled up--I have every reason to believe white kids had an equal part in soiling my pool; my point being is that I think access is there if it is wanted). Swimming is one of the hardest sports out there. You swim for 4 hours a day for a few minute race. As an example, why does Paul Smith swim a 50 when he can swim a great mile. For the real reason, you could ask him, but I submit it is because he doesn't have to. If one was good at basketball or football with the possibility of more scholarships, adoring fans, and cash, why would a kid choose swimming (I give you Kiki Vandewegh--Portland Trailblazers circa 1980s who had one of the oldest age-group national swimming records in the books--like 15 years for the 50 Back--we know what he chose but he may not be the best example as he was--and still is--a whitey.) Ken, you can close the door and pretend not to hear us knocking, but we'll be back--as Dennis Hopper once said in the only good line from waterworld, "Well, if it isn't the gentleman guppie, you're like a turd that won't flush.":angel:

Geek may be right..... with the economy the way it is, it may unfortunately remain a white man's venue for a long time to come. Although a tee shirt depicting the President-elect wearing goggles might just spark some interest.