Clovis in 09??

Hmmm, if you don't like the location, compaign or vote against the bid. Seems you have some logical reasons that may persuade people, although the travel/location stuff was much worse for Hawaii, which you don't seem to have a problem with. But I'm not a big fan of over-legislation so I find the declaration that nationals "must be within an LMSC" less than compelling and don't see why this has to be written into the rulebook. And in the current era of few bids for national championships, why in the world would we want to introduce bids that further limit the possibilities? Everyone is complaining about Clovis but, as has been noted, IT WAS THE ONLY BID. Rather than spending our time at convention arguing about rules that limit bids, let's spend the time talking about how to increase their number. Well stated Chris....I find it ridiculous that a "rule" needs to be put in place for this as well. Michael, if you don't see me at any nationals its for one of two reasons; A) I have work/travel obligations or B) It's not a place I want to spend a week hanging around at. You stated that one of the reasons you want to keep the meet in the US borders is to promote USMS....here's an idea...try a PR or marketing campaign! I challenge you to pull the stats someday and would bet you would see that after proximity, the next biggest factor in drawing people out of the shadows and attend a meet is a great location. With all due respect to the folks in Fresno it is one of the most crime ridden, boring cities in the country; http://www.worst-city.com (I grew up not far from the area so have sme first hand experiance as well) but from what I've heard the pool is outstanding. If PR gets the bid and we have no prior commitment we'll go, if its in Michigan we won't.

Well stated Chris....I find it ridiculous that a "rule" needs to be put in place for this as well... i'm with you guys on this one. i think a rule is overkill. now if we had a plethora of bids for each meet, maybe it would be warranted... I challenge you to pull the stats someday and would bet you would see that after proximity, the next biggest factor in drawing people out of the shadows and attend a meet is a great location. i think austin is a perfect example of this. how many people said the only reason they signed up for nationals this spring was because of where the meet was being held? i know quite a few myself... personally, i'd much rather spend a long weekend in san juan rather than ann arbor... and the fact that it would be cheaper and easier to get to san juan than to ann arbor isn't the only thing i'm thinking of... ;)

I have some concerns about PR,but I also have concerns about Ann Arbor.I have been there and it is a fine facility in an OK area,but the 09 LCM meet is Indianapolis,how far is that from Ann Arbor?It's like having Nats at Federal Way one year and Mt Hood the next(OK we did that,but at least they weren't LCM meets.)I understand that if there is only one bid there is only one choice,but it is time for an E coast LCM Nats.

Fresno might not be most people's idea of a vacation destination, but as others have mentioned it puts you in striking distance to plenty of places that are (lots of NPs, etc.). How much can you really do other than swim during the meet anyway? And really it's not difficult to get to from the East Coast. No, you're probably not going to get a direct flight, but you should probably be able to get there with a single connection. Since the meet is "Nationals" you can't expect it to be within driving distance for you very often. I think that those of you on the West Coast under-estimate just how difficult and expensive it is to get to Fresno from the Northeast. A quick look at flights for next May shows me that I can get from Boston to Fresno with one stop if I want to spend $566. There are flights for $463 if I want to make two stops. Most of these trips take between 8-10 hours. (I did not include the 1.5 it takes me to get to Boston. If I wanted to fly out of a closer airport, I could get to PR with one stop but could NOT get to Fresno with one stop.) I can get to Puerto Rico from Boston with one stop for only $323. It also takes several fewer hours and does not have a big time change. Clovis is far, far away from here. And of course I understand that the world does not revolve around those in the Northeast. There are going to be difficulties getting to any venue for those in various parts of the country. I just thought I'd toss out that information for those of you out west who think it's not that hard to get to Clovis.

personally, i'd much rather spend a long weekend in san juan rather than ann arbor... and the fact that it would be cheaper and easier to get to san juan than to ann arbor isn't the only thing i'm thinking of... ;) But its a long way for Michael to fly...so create a rule then throw a bid out for Stanford and keep it "west coast" friendly....

But its a long way for Michael to fly...so create a rule then throw a bid out for Stanford and keep it "west coast" friendly.... Bit of a cheap shot there Paul, don't ya think? Do you have any idea how much time Mike spent on the road for USMS and FINA to get the World's to happen at Stanford? Talk about get a life. Stanford can throw out their own bid in a timely fashion when the West Coast's turn comes around again. Tempe would be a fine place for Nationals again, where's your bid? Come to think about it what about Memphis, or St. Louis, Minneapolis, Tucson, Boston, or Charlotte? Lot's of fun places to do a Nationals, let's see those bids. In the meantime, we're getting ready for Clovis. :wine: Where is that cheese smilie?

Bit of a cheap shot there Paul, don't ya think? Do you have any idea how much time Mike spent on the road for USMS and FINA to get the World's to happen at Stanford? Talk about get a life. Stanford can throw out their own bid in a timely fashion when the West Coast's turn comes around again. Tempe would be a fine place for Nationals again, where's your bid? Come to think about it what about Memphis, or St. Louis, Minneapolis, Tucson, Boston, or Charlotte? Lot's of fun places to do a Nationals, let's see those bids. In the meantime, we're getting ready for Clovis. :wine: Where is that cheese smilie? Brian...when your not to bright you have to take all the cheap shots you can get in? By the way...I was not referring to the meet at Stanford two years ago but rather taking a WAG that we'll see a bid from Stanford come in for the same meet PR & Michigan are going for. As for Arizona....its coming. More importantly...do you really think we need a rule to limit the places that could possibly host a meet? Puerto Rico would do more PR for masters swimming than I think your giving credit for....and people would come out of the woodwork to attend.

I've been reading this discussion with interest and really have no opinion one way or the other about Clovis. If my friends go then I probably will also. It's driving distance for me and I like that. But I am going to have to make a decision. Since Senior Games are at Stanford next summer I will need to choose between the two. And Stanford is a closer drive and the Bay area has much more to offer.

Since Senior Games are at Stanford next spring I will need to choose between the two. And Stanford is a closer drive and the Bay area has much more to offer. Actually, I believe they're scheduled for August. I only write that because I was curious about a conflict with LCM Nat's when I saw a tentative "estimate" of when they were to occur.

Interesting discussion. People have very different reasons for attending nationals. To include my 2 cents - My wife (who does not compete) and I love to go to different places as it affords us the opportunity to explore a place we would not normally go. We stayed an extra 3 days in the Portland area and had a wonderful time at Skamania Lodge in Stevenson, WA near the Bonneville Dam area, then we spent a night in Portland plus we took the Coast Starlight (Amtrak) up and back to Los Angeles. We had a lovely time in Savannah when LC Nats were held there as well as Austin where we spent several days and went to the LBJ Library and LBJ ranch among other places. Now, unless my teammates twist my arm, I am not going to Clovis. The reason is I will be 59 and will be going to Indianapolis where I age up. Also, I am strongly considering going to the Canadian Nationals (SCM) in May rather than Clovis because I will have aged up for SCM and not SCY. The Canadian Nats will be held in Toronto. Ann Arbor? I'd love to go there and explore that area. Puerto Rico? Ditto.