Max Vo2, Anaerobic, LT, Aerobic Swimming

I've got some runners in my class that might disagree with you. One of my swimmers, a female, set a state record in the half-marathon for a 45 year old woman. She did it in 1 hour, 33 minutes. She swears that masters swimming helped her do it. How does she split up here training time between the two? Do you know her weekly run miles and weekly swim yardage? Did she break the running record by running less and substite in swimming? I just don't think top runners (i.e. the ones at Beijing right now) do alot of cross training in the pool to improve their running. If this girl can ride a bike she is all set.

Ericl - I'm not sure if your talking about the running or swimming workouts when you speak of things being "convuluted," but I have a hard time believing that Coach Benson is off on his training methods. Under his leadership, the University of Florida won 2 SEC track championships. In the late '80s, I walked on the track team my senior year of college and ran the 5k and 10k on the track. I can assure you that we did intervals on the track in addition to off-track workouts. I am sure that people training for these distances still do track workouts. Insofar as swimming is concerned, as a swim coach, I encourage you to open your mind to intervals and speed in the pool as it will make you a better swimmer.

Nowadays, almost no runner training for a distance longer than 100m does all of their training on the track 100m to 400m, A fair amount of weight room.......ALOT OF TRACK. ,...get over 800m and the bulk of it is off the track. Huh?

An elepahnt in the room with all track running was mental staleness and boredom. Making the the workouts everchanging permutatiopns of distances tempos etc. was a way of dealing with that. I see this in swimming as well. The weak get bored and quit. That's why there are 8 lanes and thousands of seats.

How does she split up here training time between the two? Do you know her weekly run miles and weekly swim yardage? Did she break the running record by running less and substite in swimming? I just don't think top runners (i.e. the ones at Beijing right now) do alot of cross training in the pool to improve their running. If this girl can ride a bike she is all set. She was a great triathlete now that you mention it! While getting in top form for her half, she would do two swim workouts a week. Usually she would do just a total of 2,000 yards in each workout. Insofar as her running, I would say she was doing 45 miles per week. She ran 6 days a week. On her swim days, her run would be shorter (4-6 miles). The week of a race, she would only do one swim workout early on. Now I do understand there are some top running coaches that are advocating more running in the pool instead of just on land. One gal I know is an ultra-marathoner, adventure racer, and uses a coach out of Nashville, Tennessee that is a big believer in water running. Apparently he uses it with a number of professional triathletes that he coaches as well. I do think you are right somewhat in questioning whether swimming helps running. I am focusing on running right now and have pretty much had to abandon the pool so that I have energy to do it. I do think folks like to mix things up though and not just do one type of exercise. Boy, you are right about shedding some of the upper body bulk to move better. I ran my best in HS at 5'9" and 125 to 128 lbs. I ran 5ks and 10ks until four years ago and then started focusing on swimming. Now I'm between 5'9" and 5'10 and weigh 145, mostly because of upper body development. It works great in swimming but when I run now, talking about elephants.....

She was a great triathlete now that you mention it! While getting in top form for her half, she would do two swim workouts a week. Usually she would do just a total of 2,000 yards in each workout. Insofar as her running, I would say she was doing 45 miles per week. She ran 6 days a week. On her swim days, her run would be shorter (4-6 miles). The week of a race, she would only do one swim workout early on. Two 2,000 yd workouts a week is like coming to the pool to be social. She was WAY biased to the running. The swim workouts might have been very therapudic for recovery, so in a sense it may be helpful. Swimming is really unique to itself. I think most runners who try would agree. I don't think it helped Rocky in Rocky III.....Remember that fly?

I would deem two 2,000 yd workouts using swimming as cross-training, no matter how easy it is. It's not running, and it is being used to help running, even as just a means of feeling good and recovering more quickly. If you want to improve at running, the best thing to do is running. However, I think other activities certainly can be useful. btw, I ran mile, 2mile, and XC (3mile) in HS (pretty much the farthest you can go in most meets), and now that I just graduated, I would guess I will be doing anywhere form 5K to 10K. Eric, what you said earlier about doing "convoluted" workouts, that definitely sounds interesting. I don't know that much about Igloi but his methods are a rapid departure from most of the well-known, followed coaches nowadays. It makes you wonder how little/much we know. Give the 2,000 yard workouts twice a week a shot. I've had a couple of young men that ran in college in my class and they felt swimming that small amount helped them. All three of the runners I have mentioned were very thin so the swimming may have given them a little extra power to have a good kick on the end of the race whatever the distance. I do hope you will consider doing a triathlon. Both the fellows I mentioned took it up and did very well.

As a longtime runner/coach whose arthritic knees have driven me to try swimming, I wonder how much difference between running culture and swimming culture can be derived from the potential for mind-twisting boredom in the pool. Nowadays, almost no runner training for a distance longer than 100m does all of their training on the track,...get over 800m and the bulk of it is off the track. IF you go back to the bad all old days of extreme interval training in running in the 50's or 60's, you see a change. IF you look a Mihaily Igloi, a noted running coach of his era, he insisted his runner's do ALL of their training on the track, and his workouts were just as insanely convuluted as the workouts I see here. I clain absolutely no expertise in swim training, (other than what carries over from running or endurance sport in general) but since I am stuck coaching myself, I have stuck to something a runner would recognize: Relaxed ocean swims up to 2hrs...moderate to intense intervals in the pool, and so on, and so forth. The BIG difference, which I have come to respect, is stroke maintence. As a runner, recovery meant a slow jog on a trail. As a swimmer, I have fallen into a recovery habit, of repeat 50's with adeqaute rest, and extreme attention paid to technique. I feel that is not too far off of what I have read upthread. The similarities/differences between running and swimming have been fascinating to me right from the start. I would bet that both sports occasionally suffer from an overload of "received wisdom."

I knbw my poist meandered but I nthink the word "track workout" showed up in there somewhere. I was a clloege 5 & 10k runner. During the speed phase I was averaging 3-4 track workouts a week, and that was considered one too many by some. What I was trying to give, was some historical perspective. Endurance running went through a phase of 7days/week track running. The improvements were noteworthy, the burnouts were as well. An elepahnt in the room with all track running was mental staleness and boredom. Making the the workouts everchanging permutatiopns of distances tempos etc. was a way of dealing with that. I see this in swimming as well.

"The weak get bored and quit. That's why there are 8 lanes and thousands of seats" Spoken like a 200/400 guy...or like a typical track coach from pre 1970 -