Max Vo2, Anaerobic, LT, Aerobic Swimming

I am a runner and using swimming (right now) mostly for crosstraining, please don't hurt me. :D I know what these different zones are for running, but I don't know how they would correspond to actually swimming (putting them in practice). For runners, at least in the basic plan I'm following (Lydiard), you are not supposed to do any anaerobic training in your base phase (which I'm in), or very very little. I want to make sure that I am not going into anything more intense than LT, or at least be knowledgeable of what it takes to go into each zone. I must add - I love swimming, I am thinking of maybe doing a triathlon one day or perhaps joining a club. Thanks for the help! -x xxsprint - I enjoy running and swimming also, and I coach a small masters group that has quite a few folks that run. That being said, I have learned that there are some similarities between running and swimming and there are some differences. In running, I know in your base phase, long, slow runs are often the norm. Don't do this in swimming. It is a good way to get in the habit of having sloppy technique. Instead, in the base phase of swimming, I suggest focusing on lots of stroke drills -25s and 50s. For building your endurance in the base phase of swimming, I would suggest sets of build 50s and 100 with 15 seconds - 30 seconds rest between each swim. By build, I mean starting off each swim easy and building into a fast pace by the end of the swim. After this introductory stage, you can go to longer stroke drill swims, i.e. sets of 200s and 300s. You must, however, be mindful of practicing perfect technique on these longer swims. Basically, I would work on technique first and building up speed before you go into doing whole swims in an anaerobic state. In the base phase, take your HR after you swim a set or wear an HR monitor. If you go past your AT in the base phase of swimming, you are probably going a little too hard. I'd keep it at 80-85% tops in the early season. Hope that helps! Edit - If you are going to do triathlons, I suggest you read The Triathlete's Training Bible by Joe Friel. He has a self-test you can do to establish various swim zones. He also has workouts as well. I'm not a fan of long swims until good technique is well-established. Long swims using the wrong technique can be asking for an injury.

thanks for the help guys. So, doing even distances as relatively short as 50s and 100s with that little rest inbetween wouldnt be going anaerobic? I have to ask what I think is a stupid question (at least it seems like it to me). Since I am a pretty new swimmer I get tired very quickly, seemingly whether I am stroking fast or slow. If I am breathing hard after whatever distance, even if it was very short and I was not actually "trying" hard, am I going anaerobic? I mean, in running, I have to try very hard to be breathing hard, but in swimming, it seems like I breathe hard while not trying hard. I have found that I can be in great running shape, but if I am out of the pool for too much time, I will be huffing and puffing at the slightest effort. Part of swimming is acclimating to breathing rhythm. Be sure that you are letting all of your air out before turning your head to take in more air. Many folks hold their breath and don't realize it. Take these swims very easy starting out and get faster the last half. To avoid going anaerobic, take a little more rest between each and back down on the pace throughout the swim. Later in the season, you can go to swims like 4 x 100 with 10 to 15 seconds rest and hold near 500 race pace. Those swims will be anaerobic. It is not until late in the season that you do things like 50s or 100s on 6 to 8 minutes at 95%. Again, I am a swimming purist and don't like long, slow swims done at 60%. I don't think they do anything but reinforce bad stroke technique. Get comfortable doing 50s and 100s with only 15 -30 seconds rest between each swim before you start doing straight 300s, 400s, or 500s. You can do sets of those later. Establish good technique with shorter distances as it is much easier to hold perfect technique over shorter distances. Practice does not make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.

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Do a 20 or 30 minute swim for distance going at a steady pace at as fast a pace as you can hold basically indefinitely. Your average speed per hundred should basically tell you your aerobic/anaerobic threshold pace. Stay below that pace for pure aerobic training, go faster than that pace for anaerobic training.

I would suggest sets of build 50s and 100 with 15 seconds - 30 seconds rest between each swim. By build, I mean starting off each swim easy and building into a fast pace by the end of the swim. After this introductory stage, you can go to longer stroke drill swims, i.e. sets of 200s and 300s. You must, however, be mindful of practicing perfect technique on these longer swims. thanks for the help guys. So, doing even distances as relatively short as 50s and 100s with that little rest inbetween wouldnt be going anaerobic? I have to ask what I think is a stupid question (at least it seems like it to me). Since I am a pretty new swimmer I get tired very quickly, seemingly whether I am stroking fast or slow. If I am breathing hard after whatever distance, even if it was very short and I was not actually "trying" hard, am I going anaerobic? I mean, in running, I have to try very hard to be breathing hard, but in swimming, it seems like I breathe hard while not trying hard.

Whoa, that's really interesting. In swimming you save intervals with full recovery for the end of the season? In running it is the reverse, you do full recovery in base and work your way down to less recovery, generally. I'm not sure I'm with you on that idea. I follow Roy Benson's ideas on training for running and his last phase is speed - 95-100% efforts with lots of recovery between each effort. With both running and swimming, you want to start off easy and allow your body to adjust. Mid-season running or swimming is rough either way you cut it. For me, I used to do 5ks and 10ks, so mid to late season, I was doing 12 x 400s on the track at 90 -95% effort with a 100M recovery. This would translate in swimming to doing 12 x 100 with a 20 -30 second rest. Last phase, on the hard days of both running or swimming, the focus should be on short speed with race pace efforts with lots of recovery. Of course the few days before a race, you don't want to be doing race-pace efforts. I think one thing runners often wonder about is why there is such short rest (30 seconds) on the swims early on. Remember, instead of swimming a straight 400 at 75 -80%, you are breaking it into 8 x 50s build at the same effort level. The 400 is broken up so that you can maintain perfect stroke. I think of it like a run out at the track where you are striding the straights at 80% and jogging the curves for recovery. The only difference here is that you are stopping to get your recovery on the swim. Check out The Runner's Coach by Roy Benson to see the phases I'm talking about. Correct me if I am wrong, but whether you are training to run an 800 or a marathon, don't you need more recovery time the closer you get to your race?

I am a runner and using swimming (right now) mostly for crosstraining, please don't hurt me. :D I know what these different zones are for running, but I don't know how they would correspond to actually swimming (putting them in practice). Here's an article that should help: www.usaswimming.org/.../ViewMiscArticle.aspx

It is not until late in the season that you do things like 50s or 100s on 6 to 8 minutes at 95%. Whoa, that's really interesting. In swimming you save intervals with full recovery for the end of the season? In running it is the reverse, you do full recovery in base and work your way down to less recovery, generally.

Swimming workouts (the concept of intervals, lactic threshold etc.) are more analgous to a runner who trains up to the 1500 where lactic acid management is crucial. If you are a distance runner, the training is not very similar to typical swimming workouts. But cross training in the pool to do distance running?????? I think a swimmer can benefit from cross training on the track. Particularly sprints, plyo's etc. But I don't think there is much benefit to cross train in the pool for running of any distance, unless you are "running" in the pool for injury rehab, or some type of active recovery which can be very soothing (if you know how to swim). If I were to get back to running, I would need to cut way back on swimming almost to zero and waste some upper body bulk developed from swimming. What distance to you train for?

Swimming workouts (the concept of intervals, lactic threshold etc.) are more analgous to a runner who trains up to the 1500 where lactic acid management is crucial. If you are a distance runner, the training is not very similar to typical swimming workouts. But cross training in the pool to do distance running?????? I think a swimmer can benefit from cross training on the track. Particularly sprints, plyo's etc. But I don't think there is much benefit to cross train in the pool for running of any distance, unless you are "running" in the pool for injury rehab, or some type of active recovery which can be very soothing (if you know how to swim). If I were to get back to running, I would need to cut way back on swimming almost to zero and waste some upper body bulk developed from swimming. What distance to you train for? rtodd - I've got some runners in my class that might disagree with you. One of my swimmers, a female, set a state record in the half-marathon for a 45 year old woman. She did it in 1 hour, 33 minutes. She swears that masters swimming helped her do it. Edit - Check out info on Roy Benson's training at www.pccoach.com/.../book_run_bensonsecrets.htm