It was stated several pages earlier that NCAA level swimmers are fully aware of the risks of taking supplements. This is not what I have experienced. Most college swimmers buy their supplements at the nutrion store. That is the extent of their quality assurance. At top tier (swimming) Universities this is probably not the case, but that is the exception not the norm. I wonder if the testing is less encompassing in the NCAA?
It seems that the prevelent opinion being expressed here is that there is no such thing as an honest mistake. Lindsay must be naive or living in utopia for wanting to find out more about the circumstances before labeling JH a lieing cheat and banning her for life. But it seems to be that the true naivete being asserted here is basing a serious conviction - that noone is ever falsely labeled - on limited personal experiences.
Lefty, your correct that not all colleges have testing programs for swimmers like Texas, U of A, Auburn, etc...but to suggest that in this day and age a collegiate swimmer isn't aware of the problems with drugs and possibilities of tainted supplements I find hard to believe....
But that was not really the association I was making...my point is if your an elite swimmer with trials cuts, let along a pro like JH and a shot at making the team then you are rolling the dice if you choose to take anything into your body and not be VERY sure about what it is.
JH was taking a huge amount of over the counter supplements...that in itself is enough for me to say she was pushing the envelope.
Can anybody here give me a good reason of why all of the other supporters of Advocare have jumped like rats from a sinking ship?
By how many other endorsers of this product there were, it would seem pretty reasonable to "ASSUME" that they were a reputable company.
Ooops......maybe not......
I agree with Paul Smith... making excuses is a huge issue here, no one wants to be accountable for anything anymore - always blaming someone else for their problems. And, it's not just in sports - it is everywhere.
I for one am tired of looking up to athletic "heroes" and a couple years down the road, they admit to cheating or are caught... I feel like a fool when this happens because I cheered for them and wanted them to win/medal. I don't know about anyone else, but I don't like getting burned like that (from a fan's perspective).
Sorry Peter but I feel very strongly that in general our society is to quick to give a pass, forgive, forget, make excuses and just simply not punish liars and cheaters...it seems everywhere I turn more and more people are looking to cut corners, screw people over and basically be selfish. There needs to be enough shame and harsh enough punishments for bad behavior to make people think a little bit harder before they engage in it.
There I go....riding Geek's coat tails again.
Kinda like how the death penalty has stopped serial killers you mean?
Do you think lifetime bans will deter would be dopers? I'm not so sure about that ... Perhaps the main benefit would be preventing a known cheater from returning to the sport?
Unfortunately, I have to agree with Paul about the Excuse Machine.
Seriously. What doper says, 'if I get caught, it's only some bad publicity and a two year ban...totally worth the risk'? Somehow I just don't think any of them really consider the consequences, and probably assume they will never get caught.
I've got to agree with the "harsh" posters here as well. We have to stop making excuses, searching for extenuating circumstances, and blaming supplement manufacturing for the dopers. They are doping, plain and simple. It is inconceivable that every American swimmer that tests positive must have been a victim of a circumstance beyond their control. We have to face the fact, that even in the oh-so-clean sport of American swimming, there are people that are going to cheat. If our collective reaction when we hear about a foreign swimmer getting caught is "hah.. knew it was too good to be true" then what have we to say when we hear it about one of "ours"?
There's been so much banter about "intent" and "moral judgment" but the facts of the case are that (1) she was taking supplements, despite the risks (2) she failed a doping test at OT's (3) she has dropped the appeals process and withdrawn from the team. You get to piece together the puzzle. If I had spent the last 4 years of my life training clean to make the Olympics, potentially a once in a lifetime chance, and found out I failed a drug test, I'd be appealing right up until the gun went off to start my preliminary heat. To me, not doing so is an admission of guilt.
And I would agree with a lifetime ban. If we are to take the anti-doping agencies seriously, then dish out serious punishments.
There are two sides to this, at least. First off, JH and her cadre of excuse making family and lawyers have certainly put the thought in everyone's mind that her supplements could be the culprit, this without a single shred of proof. So, to one of the Advocare athletes hearing this they might get very nervous and leave the company. The irony here is JH is a proven doper and a known liar and cheat yet there hasn't been a single thing proven wrong with any of Advocare's products.
The thing about cheaters, as previously stated, is that they don't do gown without a fight, and usually take others down with them. Look at the trail of corpses from Jones, Clemens, Bonds, Canseco, Floyd. It's a familiar pattern.
So, oh mighty and all knowing one......because her test came back POS she is automatically a lying cheat? How do you KNOW this for fact? All we know is that she tested POS....we KNOW nothing else until the end result!
Where is your PROOF that she lied? Or cheated? And don't go spouting drivel about past liars or cheaters.....where is the proof that JH has done either of those?
