Freestyle help

Show your son these under-water video's forums.usms.org/showpost.php

The first 2 videos are really not worth him seeing. The Popov video shows too many items. If you look closely Popov does finish on his thigh when he is truly swimming. The head up crawl he is showing is not something for your guy. I don't like it. Thorpe to me is an ideal study. But it is short and there are some great videos of his swimming if you search them out. I prefer Hackett as a stroke study. Taruky I sent you a link to some Hackett and Thorpe videos which are pretty good.

Well, I've finally taken above water and underwater video of my son. Please forgive the horrible camera work. I would appreciate any analysis given. My own observations; 1. Variability from one stroke to the next (especially when fatigue settles in), where sometimes he gets a vertical forearm and other times not (dropped elbow). 2. Arm sometimes extended more to the side than out in front. He also spreads his fingers and pushes water a little on extension. 3. A bit herky jerky stroke? 4. Probably should give a little more time for recovery arm to enter water before stroking? 5. I don't get a sense that he's harnessing the momentum from his rotation. video.google.com/videoplay www.youtube.com/watch www.youtube.com/watch www.youtube.com/watch

Asperger's syndrome students would rather see and do, rather then listen to verbal instruction. Demonstrate and over exagerate each movement. Taruky, My 9-yo son also has Asperger's and also swims. I am not going to add to the instructions you are getting from others on this forum, they know freestyle mechanics better than I do (Mark Gill once described my freestyle as a "trainwreck," and he is not wrong). What I will say is about successful swimming instruction with my son. I will second George's observation and add two more: -- I have found my son to be VERY literal about instructions, almost to a fault. At times (particularly in races) I almost feel like telling him to stop being overanalytical about his swimming technique, just get in there are enjoy the race. Filling his head with technical advice can be counterproductive, PARTICULARLY AT MEETS. I am not saying that technique is not important -- it is almost the ONLY thing that is important at that age -- but also know when to stop. Even when it doesn't look like it, he is usually paying attention and trying hard to adopt the proper form. -- There are times when I coach my son and I have found that being in the water with him is 1000 times more productive than coaching from the deck. Getting in there and moving his arms and body is much better than demonstrating it from the deck...and he often isn't looking at me anyway. I don't know if your son is the same, but my son avoids eye contact when receiving instructions. I have read that some Asperger's kids do this to avoid visual distractions, to concentrate on the words...which is fine but not if they need to see demonstrations! I hope this helps. Good luck.

Taruky, My 9-yo son also has Asperger's and also swims. I am not going to add to the instructions you are getting from others on this forum, they know freestyle mechanics better than I do (Mark Gill once described my freestyle as a "trainwreck," and he is not wrong). What I will say is about successful swimming instruction with my son. I will second George's observation and add two more: -- I have found my son to be VERY literal about instructions, almost to a fault. At times (particularly in races) I almost feel like telling him to stop being overanalytical about his swimming technique, just get in there are enjoy the race. Filling his head with technical advice can be counterproductive, PARTICULARLY AT MEETS. I am not saying that technique is not important -- it is almost the ONLY thing that is important at that age -- but also know when to stop. Even when it doesn't look like it, he is usually paying attention and trying hard to adopt the proper form. -- There are times when I coach my son and I have found that being in the water with him is 1000 times more productive than coaching from the deck. Getting in there and moving his arms and body is much better than demonstrating it from the deck...and he often isn't looking at me anyway. I don't know if your son is the same, but my son avoids eye contact when receiving instructions. I have read that some Asperger's kids do this to avoid visual distractions, to concentrate on the words...which is fine but not if they need to see demonstrations! I hope this helps. Good luck. Are you sure we don't have the same son? :laugh2: You make very poignant observations, ones that I am aware of but need a reminder at times to follow. I always get in the pool with him (except when I had a horrific swimmer's ear) and move arms and legs for him to demonstrate. However I am guilty as the dickens of giving him last minute reminders at meets, and often repeating myself when he seems he's not looking. Funny, I'm a pediatrician who is well versed on Asperger's but has trouble doing as I suggest to others. I really appreciate your post, it gave me a sense of comfort. By the way, if Tomtopo is reading this, I bought techpaddles for my son and I. I used them for the first time today, pretty cool. I can see how with repetition it can be a hige help. Although my son still intermittently dropped his elbows after we took them off, his sense of pressure on the arms was much better and I could see the improved propulsion. I have been doing some dry land exercises, particularly the ones in a video someone linked (the foreign coach resisting the female swimmer's arms to produce muscle memory).

We used to run a program for 230 special needs children at my swimming school. This was a federal employement program. I had a programme with 10 instructors and taught them to teach water therapy for people with disabilities. All of the instruction was done with a hands on technique and one on one. It was very rewarding. The only people who received money were the instructors that I hired and taught. We did this for 2 years.

The first video. He looks like he has potential. It seems he is not finishing his stroke with his right arm, it seems it is exiting just a little below his waist. He is dropping both elbows on occasion but his left elbow starts dropping as the hand enters the water. The left hand goes up after entry instead of slipping to the catch this is an indicator of dropping the elbow as you extend. It also seems to go out wide during the pull stage which moves him off streamline. I myself would let him do it the way he is with out over correcting. Just work on one thing at a time. More later.

I just watched this video. Very informative www.youtube.com/watch for anyone who needs help with their stroke.

Geochuck, if you don't mind let me ask you something (anyone else is welcome to chime in). I've watched a lot of these videos and obviously different swimmers have different techniques. Mr. Topolski seems to espouse a vertical forearm such that the elbow points forward, even though I see very few of the pros get their elbows forward on the EVF (Grant Hackett is an exception, he contorts his shoulder/arm). I also see swimmers get the forearm vertical at different times, some prior to rotation, and some when the body is already flat. Some have the elbow wider on the catch, some closer in to the body. If your vertical forearm is suppose to be an anchor and you are already halfway rotated (flat), wouldn't it stand to reason that you get less propulsion/torque from that? Look at this video of Kara Lynnn Joyce. www.goswim.tv/.../go-swim-freestyle-with-kara-lynn-joyce.html Is there a generally accepted technique to maximize propulsion? If the forearm is vertical when you are flat, then what is the first half of rotation good for? Or are you anchoring yourself also while getting into the EVF. When do most of you start to rotate?

I think that the search for universal truths is a recipe for frustration in stroke analysis. In the go swim video in one clip she is swimming very close to a catch up stroke, only starting the pull when her recovering hand is almost entering the water, later (about the 1:59 mark) you see a totally different timing, starting the pull as her other hand leaves the water. Most people adjust their stroke timing beyond simple tempo depending on whether they are swimming a 50 or a 1500. Lots of people would strongly disagree but I think that rotation is not about generating torque, it is about positioning your body and limbs in ways that let you use big strong muscles and maximize streamlining and anchor your limbs to best effect given that joints are limited in the ways they can move. During the stroke analysis session on my last SwimTrek trip the instructor gave a useful demonstration. Hold onto some immovable object with your arm extended directly in front of you and press down. With your other hand feel your lat under the arm you are pressing with. You will note that it isn't very tense. If you hold it for a while you will begin to feel your shoulder muscles tiring. Now rotate so that the arm is now extended directly out to the side and again press down. You should immediate feel the entire lat muscle tense. So being rotated on your side not only makes you more streamlined but it allows you to better engage your lats. You might find it useful to play around with pulling yourself up on the pool edge, trying different hand placements and arm positions to see where you get the most power. You will also find that at full extension above your head your lat is more engaged when your your palm is rotated outward. These are the sorts of things that confound any attempt at analysis that is based purely on theoretical efficiency of propelling surfaces. When I looked at the first of your videos of your son it looked to me like he was doing a pretty good job of translating his rotation into propulsion, it looked to me like he just needs to get a better anchor/EVF and eventually put a little more muscle into pulling himself past that anchor. It looks like he's got a pretty good foundation. Good luck. Disclaimer: my advice is worth what you paid for it, it's not meant to be authoritative, just to give you some things to try and to play with. Thank you for your input. I see your point about the two different strokes she shows in the clip. The EVF seems easier to me in a catchup stroke because you are almost flat when getting to EVF, whereas it's tougher to achieve while rotated. Incidentally, I notice she gets her elbow out pretty wide on the catch, I'm wondering if that is something that might help me.