LZR - Enough is enough

What, did you stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night? :rofl: That is outstanding!!

Someone here told me yesterday that he ordered an LZR for his son, who is going to junior nationals. He got discounts through his son's age-group coach or team (or both, I'm not sure I completely understood) and by the time it was all said and done he paid $160.00. So the $550.00 list price for the LZR may be more like the manufacturer's MSRP for a new car... perhaps no one actually pays it. Small hint - that person is mis-informed. Either they're not getting a LZR, or they're not getting it soon. Speedo reportedly doesn't have enough suits in the pipeline to meet the needs of people like the Canadian Olympic team. Do you really think they're selling them to kids who are at the Junior National level? -Rick

Small hint - that person is mis-informed. Either they're not getting a LZR, or they're not getting it soon. Speedo reportedly doesn't have enough suits in the pipeline to meet the needs of people like the Canadian Olympic team. Do you really think they're selling them to kids who are at the Junior National level? -Rick I know a 13 year old with one. But seems unlikely. Must be confusing it with the Pro or something? Although even Pros don't sell for that little with discounts. No way are they getting it for $160 though. Team discounts are typically only 10%. Thanks for the article, Allen. Looking forward to reading it.

Brent Rushall has an amazing article on bodysuits coachsci.sdsu.edu/.../2008suit.htm An interesting article, one that echoes some of my own thoughts about the tech suits. The author's observations on the dearth of sound science behind the manufacturer's claims is correct, in my opinion. Based on my own experiences I am convinced that the effects of the FSII on (my own) performance are minor at best. One part of the article I found a little dubious was in section #4, specifically about visual detection of turbulent water from still pictures of elite swimmers during performances. Even when at rest, swimmers wearing these suits often exhibit these kind of "bubbles," and clearly there is no turbulence involved. So I think support for the author's contention that shaved skin is the best surface is still lacking. And, to be fair, I'm sure that Dr. Rushall would be the first to agree that more explicit comparisons should be done in well designed experiments. But it would be hard to account for the psychological aspects that he mentions. It is difficult for a swimmer in briefs to maintain positive thinking in the face of near-universal belief (proven or not) in their efficacy, and the author himself claims that such psychological factors can be even more important than the physical effects of the suit on performance. I also thought he was too dismissive of the claim of form drag as an explanation of possible benefits of the suit...particularly for masters swimmers! For myself, I haven't completely given up on tech suits and plan to do a similar testing of the Blueseventy Nero next SCY season, which is the next time I plan to rest & shave for a meet with a trials/finals format. I decided against trying the FS-Pro because I don't like full leg suits and because of the ease of ripping. The LZR is a non-starter for me at its present price, reliability and durability.

One part of the article I found a little dubious was in section #4, specifically about visual detection of turbulent water from still pictures of elite swimmers during performances. Even when at rest, swimmers wearing these suits often exhibit these kind of "bubbles," and clearly there is no turbulence involved. So I think support for the author's contention that shaved skin is the best surface is still lacking. Yeah, he's definitely mistaking bubbles for turbulence. I read some of the articles he referenced regarding first-generation suits last night, and I'm going to try to find more of them today at the library. I read just the abstracts of most of them, and I still had a lot of questions. The biggest hole in the research is a lack of realistic control groups. Swimmers need to be shaved in the regular suit condition, and they need to be wearing properly fitted competition suits, not just whatever they wore to practice that day. Huub Toussaint specifically mentioned this problem in one of his papers, and he showed pictures of a female swimmer from the study wearing the Fastskin and the regular suit. The regular suit was a poly trainer! Who wears that in a meet?

Why does MLB prohibit the use of aluminum bats or spitting on baseballs or letting players use steroids (okay - two out of three)? Why does NASCAR prohibit fuel injected engines or certain transmission gear ratios? Why does the PGA disqualify certain golf balls or regulate golf clubs? Why can't basketball players where stilts or use a trampoline? Enough is enough, when a piece of equipment can alter the record books and cheapen the physical accomplishments of every past athlete, it's time to say stop (don't you think?). The integrity of our sport is on the line here. How about two dolphin kicks for breaststroke or how about adding another arm-stroke to the backstroke turn or allowing IM'ers to turn-over before they touch on the back to *** transition. I'm against the LZR and any suit that enhances performance and don't think I'll be changing my mind unless they find out swimming naked can make you swim faster. Did you hear about the Buddhist who refused Novocain during a root canal? His goal: transcend dental medication. Coach T. Hey Tomtopo Welcome to the TSB (Tech Suit Basher’s) Forum***. New members are greatly appreciated and others are warmly encouraged to join!!! The TSB Forum was established in response to all the negative attitudes about so called “Technical Suits” in swimming and here are some of the main issues: Here Comes "Robo Swimmer" :shakeshead: Since the emergence of tech suits, what was once an athletic art of pure and sheer elegance has now become a mechanized spectacle reminiscent of NASCAR complete with all the latest “performance enhancing” features. Big $$$ Under The Table :shakeshead: FINA and the suit makers (Speedo, Tyr, Nike, etc.) have a highly questionable business relationship and political corruption is running rampant between these two entities. When it comes to FINA’s approval of swim suits, it's beginning to look like a classic case of "The tail wagging the dog” and the suit makers are reaping the big reward of having swimmers competing in $500 tech suits instead of conventional $20 briefs. Accordingly, the suit makers are raking in big $$$ and getting tons of world wide brand recognition. Where’s The Water??? :shakeshead: Of all the issues with tech suits, the main thing is that they take away the feel of being in the water and the comfortable aquatic experience of swimming in briefs has been replaced with an ecchy “taking a bath with your clothes on” sensation. Covering 95% of your body with waterproof material is completely antithetical to the concept of swimming and that alone is enough to toss the body suit idea out the window. With your help, we can get rid of tech suits and return swimming to it’s grandeur as one of last remaining examples of a true athletic art!!! :groovy: ***The TSB Forum is a privately maintained blog within the USMS.Org site (established using "the principle of Squatter's Rights") and it is NOT affiliated with USMS or any other organization. Never-the-less, it does provide an excellent breeding ground for trolls (such as me!!!) to have a great time venting our ridicule over the tech suit craze (and also be a constructive annoyance to FINA, Speedo, Tyr, Nike, etc). Dolphin 2 P.S. Tomtopo, I really like the idea of swimming naked and that should be FINA’s only rule regarding swimwear!!! :drink:

I'm not sure whether anyone has mentioned this yet or not... From the Wall Street Journal: online.wsj.com/.../SB121323649469366905.html "On Tuesday (June 10), succumbing to growing demands by Japanese swimmers, the Japan Swimming Federation said swimmers will be allowed to wear the LZR Racer at the Beijing Olympics, a humiliating blow to three Japanese swimwear makers -- Asics Corp., Descente Ltd. and Mizuno Corp. -- who had contracts to equip the national team...."

I'm, testing a Blue Seventy Point Zero3 this week...got it today. I spoke at length with Glenn Mills about the suit yesterday after he used one in Biltmore last weekend: goswim.tv/.../my-blueseventy.html I'm really struggling with this...make no mistake this IS a wetsuit...maybe they've come up with a hybrid material, whatever to meet FINA guidelines but its still a wetsuit. With that in mind a few concerns other than the fact that people will simply be destroying ANY records not swam in one of this new generation of suits: - Technique; Glenn pointed out that the "old" days of exceptional/technique based swimmers now don't have to worry about body position...its corrected for you. - Training; I think he's 100% correct that the rest of the "playing field" will all have this technology in years to come and the best trained athletes will prevail...but right now I'm going to feel a bit awkward swimming against someone in an "old" suit. - Does it even matter that some records were set in different types of suits? Does Janet Evans records swimming in what amounts to a "Pinto" matter in a world where Katie Hoff is using a Ferrarri? More to come....

Paul, did you feel hot in the suit? I swam at 6am so no. But will say you do not want to sit around in this thing all day at a meet. As Glenn pointed out in his article...much easier to get on then a FS Pro. Also, i just spoke with one of the owners and got a bit more info. As Ande said although this suit will work for "pool" meets it really was developed with a triathlete in mind...loser fit to get on/off over a pair of cycling/running shorts faster. I'm going to go with the Nero instead...

Does that mean the point zero 3 is not for pool racing? And what is the difference between the point zero 3 and the point zero 3+? Is the 3+ just a later version? The 3+ covers the calves; the 3 only goes to the knees. They are both meant for triathlons where wetsuits are not legal (eg, the IM championships in Kona). So it is intended that you would wear tri shorts or unis under the suit. Compared to the Comp and 10k versions, there may be a difference in thickness as well, but I am not sure. (Thicker may even be better if it means "more buoyant.") The Nero Comp and 10k are meant for swimming races -- the latter for OW swims, as implied by the name -- and I believe both come in full leg knee-high versions. The zipper on the 10k is not as "streamlined" (hydrodynamic) as on the Comp, otherwise they are identical. All this information comes from Blueseventy, I have not compared the two suits side-by-side.