In this thread Fortress said:
Interesting Race Club thread. There was one post concluding that lactate tolerance was the key for the last 15 meters of a 100, not aerobic capacity.
Which leads to something I've been thinking about lately. I'm sure we've all had races where you try to give it everything you've got at the end and you absolutely turn to jello. I assume this is the lactic acid kicking in. When it hits you slow down very quickly. So how can we train to improve that tolerance?
Here's an article by Genadijus Sokolovas on the USA Swimming website: www.usaswimming.org/.../ViewMiscArticle.aspx
In it he talks about lactate tolerance type sets:
Anaerobic Metabolism (Anaerobic-Glycolitic) is the non-oxidative process of recycling of ATP from glycogen. Glycogen is stored in the muscle cells. Glycogen fairly rapidly recycles ATP, but it is slower than from CP. Anaerobic metabolism produces lactate. It is the main energy system for exercise bouts of 30 sec until 3 min. When distances are longer, aerobic metabolism predominates. Anaerobic metabolism has high power, middle capacity, and low efficiency.
Examples of swimming sets and distances that develop anaerobic metabolism: distances of 50 to 300 M/Y, high intensity swimming sets with a short rest interval (i.e., 6-16 x 25 M/Y, 4-8 x 50 M/Y, 2-4 x 100 M/Y, 2 x 200 M/Y with rest interval 20-30 sec etc.).
Anyway, I'm finally getting to my point here. The standard way to do this is using fixed sets like this, but has anyone tried something like swimming absolutely all-out until you hit that lactate "jello" feel where you feel yourself slowing down? At that point maybe do some very slow "active rest" swimming then repeat, etc. The goal being to build up the time/distance you can keep up that all-out speed. It seems like actually confronting that lactate wall like this would be a great way to help with lactate tolerance in races.
Former Member
It isn't easy to find good research on the benefits of active recovery. Much of what I found was related to body building - and the recovery period was of the between days kind - not between repeats of interval training.
One article I found though said:
1. Active recovery reduces lactic acid, but may not improve performance in that day’s workout.
2. The use of passive and active recovery can be used as another variable in training plans, with each having a beneficial affect.
The full article is here.
The explanation for #1 above ("may not improve performance") was that although active recovery clears lactic acid faster it also slows resynthesis of muscle glycogen. Sounds like a good news/bad news situation. Passive recovery isn't as good at clearing lactic acid but it allows the muscles to replenish themselves with glycogen.
Former Member
We sometimes did broken 200s with very short rest. Usually this did not mean going all out on the first 50, but trying to get a good time.
But sometimes we did all out as well. All out on the first 50. 10 sec rest. All out on the second and so forth. H U R T as hell. But times in SCM went from 24.9s to 32s in the 50s. So I wonder if that really improved my swimming! And there was no idea trying to do a second one..
You, my friend, are a maniac! :bow:
Seconded. :notworthy:
:oldman: Reminds me of a college workout where our distance lane was graced by an alumnus who still held plenty of our school records. He wasn't a distance guy, or even a freestyler, but he needed some aerobic work so he swam with us. We were in taper so the main set was short, something like 10x300 on 3:30. Our coach gave the standard threat about starting the set all over again if any of us went slower than 3:05. We busted our butts and made those 3:05's (ok maybe a couple of them were 3:06's :D)... except up at the front of the line, there was our guest, cruising in the 2:57-2:59 range with no apparent exertion. :cry:
A little over 20 seconds; I held 1:53s. But others in my lane got much less, going in the 2:05-2:10 range. Again, the idea is to get most of your rest while swimming the 150s -- which were EASY -- and not on the wall.
The first four 150s were not hard but not quite easy, either: get your stroke and rhythm going, prepare your body to go fast. But once you do the first 200, the 150s should all be very easy, to recover.
Sorry, my prediction was for the entire lane, knowing that Chris would be getting about double that. Sigh. And Chris, easy for me is about :45 per 50 so that would put me starting the next one as soon as I touch. Double sigh.
Paul
What is the theory behind "active recovery"? Are you getting the lactic acid out between fast swims? I have to say, I can't stand it. I just want to go really really slow between swims if I'm doing a set of 5 x 100 on 4-5 minutes. Active recovery seems too hard when I need to gasp for breath.
What is the theory behind "active recovery"? Are you getting the lactic acid out between fast swims? I have to say, I can't stand it. I just want to go really really slow between swims if I'm doing a set of 5 x 100 on 4-5 minutes. Active recovery seems too hard when I need to gasp for breath.
I don't know the theory, if there is one. But it can mimic what happens in a race -- say a 500 -- if you realize you've taken it out too hard. You back off slightly for 100-200 and then still bring it back strong. Even a 200 can benefit, regrouping on the 3rd 50 while getting ready for that last push.
Or, in open water swimming, it allows you to respond to sudden changes in the pace of the pack. Fartlek training is a similar idea, really.
If all you want to do is 50s and 100s -- not that I'm saying there is anything wrong with that :D -- then maybe it is less useful. Maybe Tall Paul can tell us if he thinks so, even though he doesn't consider himself a true sprinter he is more of one than I am, and I think I remember reading a post of his saying he did some Fartlek training.
I also don't think the pace need be QUITE as white-hot as when doing 100s on the 5 minutes. Slightly more controlled than that, but still very fast.
What is the theory behind "active recovery"? Are you getting the lactic acid out between fast swims? I have to say, I can't stand it. I just want to go really really slow between swims if I'm doing a set of 5 x 100 on 4-5 minutes. Active recovery seems too hard when I need to gasp for breath.
Could be you're still swimming too fast. I have this problem also and have really made a concerted effort to go slow. I can now swim 50m free in 52-53 as opposed to my previous 'best' of 44-45. That 8 seconds makes all the difference in the world with regards to recovery.
Paul
I always thought the very slow swimming helped to clear the acid from the muscles more than just standing around does. I really don't know if this is true physiologically, but just about every coach encourages their swimmers to warmdown after races for this reason.
HOWEVER, the levels in most sets also do not approach the high levels that exist at the end of a race. Therefore, I think the body also needs to experience such levels in practice (ie, mimic that feeling you get at the end of the race).
I agree and I think most people have a hard time pushing this hard in practice. The other thing is I believe it's very difficult to not automatically pace yourself based on the length of the swim. If you're supposed to do a 15 meter blast you'll swim all out, if the set is repeat 100s you'll naturally hold back a little. I'm proposing changing this by not giving a fixed length to the swim. Instead, the goal is to swim at top speed for as long as you can.
I'm proposing changing this by not giving a fixed length to the swim. Instead, the goal is to swim at top speed for as long as you can.
This is a change? I can't do top speed for more than a 50. lol
No problem with going slow, Paul. I think of active recovery as something more than lounging around. At least that's what our coach seems to think. Left to my own devices, I'd rather do DAB than active recovery. Since I'm not swimming 500s like Chris, it appears not to matter.
