After seeing some accomplished swimmers get disqualified in Austin, our masters group has been trying to interpret the rules on both the butterfly and breaststroke turns.
The first question is related to the "simultaneous touch":
The 2008 USA Swimming Rules and Regulations book states for both strokes: "The touch shall be made simultaneously at, above, or below the water surface."
Does this mean that one hand can be above the water and one below the water as long as they touch at the same time? We all seem to remember as kids that the touch had to be simultaneous on the same horizontal plane.
For breaststroke, the book also states that throughout the stroke "the arms shall be simultaneous and in the same horizontal plane...", so if that is the case, then the swimmer would have to touch the wall at the same level.
There is no such added description for arms in the butterfly stroke.
The second question is regarding the body position upon leaving the wall:
For breaststroke, the book states: "...after each turn when the swimmer leaves the wall, the body shall be kept on the ***." Must the swimmer be 100% flat as soon as their feet leave the wall?
For butterfly, it states: "Once the turn has been made, the shoulders must be at or past the vertical toward the *** when the swimmer leaves the wall."
To further complicate things, for the backstroke to breaststroke turn in the IM, the rule book states: "Once the legal touch has been made, the swimmer may turn in any manner but the shoulders must be at or past the vertical toward the *** when the swimmer leaves the wall and the prescribed breasstroke form must be attained prior to the first arm stroke."
Does anyone have any insight into these rules?
Thanks!
The first question is related to the "simultaneous touch":
The 2008 USA Swimming Rules and Regulations book states for both strokes: "The touch shall be made simultaneously at, above, or below the water surface."
Does this mean that one hand can be above the water and one below the water as long as they touch at the same time? We all seem to remember as kids that the touch had to be simultaneous on the same horizontal plane.
Yes, unlike BitD (back in the day) hands no longer have to be on the same plane when they touch. That means that you can start to set up your turn as you come into the wall by dropping one shoulder down prior to the touch.
For breaststroke, the book also states that throughout the stroke "the arms shall be simultaneous and in the same horizontal plane...", so if that is the case, then the swimmer would have to touch the wall at the same level.
Ah, but the streamline/glide portion is not a 'stroke', this refers to while the arms are moving thru the motion. Since you are at the end of a complete 'stroke' at the turn, this rule does not come into effect.
For breaststroke, the book states: "...after each turn when the swimmer leaves the wall, the body shall be kept on the ***." Must the swimmer be 100% flat as soon as their feet leave the wall?
No, it refers to the fact that the shoulders must be rotated to the ***. So a swimmer can leave the wall with thier shoulders just barely rotated to the *** BUT the rule concerning the arms being in the same horizontal plane WILL come into play if the swimmer starts thier arm pull before they get thier shoulders turned to parrallel (or nearly so from the S&T judges view) to the pool bottom.
For butterfly, it states: "Once the turn has been made, the shoulders must be at or past the vertical toward the *** when the swimmer leaves the wall."
The rules for body position prior to the feet leaving the wall for *** and Fly are the same. As long your shoulders are even _slightly_ past vertical to the *** you are legal
To further complicate things, for the backstroke to breaststroke turn in the IM, the rule book states: "Once the legal touch has been made, the swimmer may turn in any manner but the shoulders must be at or past the vertical toward the *** when the swimmer leaves the wall and the prescribed breasstroke form must be attained prior to the first arm stroke."
Does anyone have any insight into these rules?
Thanks!
The best way to think about IM is to break it into 4 sections by stroke. All turns during each stroke portion must be legal for that stroke and each finish of each stroke portion must be a legal finish for that stroke. While this has no real affect on Fly or Free, it does have meaning on Back and the Back to *** transitions. By that I mean during the backstroke portion you can perform a backstroke flipturn if the next length is backstroke but at the back - *** transition you must touch the wall with any portion of your body while rotated to your back. Once you finish you can turn any way you like. but you have to leave the wall according to breaststroke rules as you have finished the backstroke portion.
Paul
The first question is related to the "simultaneous touch":
The 2008 USA Swimming Rules and Regulations book states for both strokes: "The touch shall be made simultaneously at, above, or below the water surface."
Does this mean that one hand can be above the water and one below the water as long as they touch at the same time? We all seem to remember as kids that the touch had to be simultaneous on the same horizontal plane.
Yes, unlike BitD (back in the day) hands no longer have to be on the same plane when they touch. That means that you can start to set up your turn as you come into the wall by dropping one shoulder down prior to the touch.
For breaststroke, the book also states that throughout the stroke "the arms shall be simultaneous and in the same horizontal plane...", so if that is the case, then the swimmer would have to touch the wall at the same level.
Ah, but the streamline/glide portion is not a 'stroke', this refers to while the arms are moving thru the motion. Since you are at the end of a complete 'stroke' at the turn, this rule does not come into effect.
For breaststroke, the book states: "...after each turn when the swimmer leaves the wall, the body shall be kept on the ***." Must the swimmer be 100% flat as soon as their feet leave the wall?
No, it refers to the fact that the shoulders must be rotated to the ***. So a swimmer can leave the wall with thier shoulders just barely rotated to the *** BUT the rule concerning the arms being in the same horizontal plane WILL come into play if the swimmer starts thier arm pull before they get thier shoulders turned to parrallel (or nearly so from the S&T judges view) to the pool bottom.
For butterfly, it states: "Once the turn has been made, the shoulders must be at or past the vertical toward the *** when the swimmer leaves the wall."
The rules for body position prior to the feet leaving the wall for *** and Fly are the same. As long your shoulders are even _slightly_ past vertical to the *** you are legal
To further complicate things, for the backstroke to breaststroke turn in the IM, the rule book states: "Once the legal touch has been made, the swimmer may turn in any manner but the shoulders must be at or past the vertical toward the *** when the swimmer leaves the wall and the prescribed breasstroke form must be attained prior to the first arm stroke."
Does anyone have any insight into these rules?
Thanks!
The best way to think about IM is to break it into 4 sections by stroke. All turns during each stroke portion must be legal for that stroke and each finish of each stroke portion must be a legal finish for that stroke. While this has no real affect on Fly or Free, it does have meaning on Back and the Back to *** transitions. By that I mean during the backstroke portion you can perform a backstroke flipturn if the next length is backstroke but at the back - *** transition you must touch the wall with any portion of your body while rotated to your back. Once you finish you can turn any way you like. but you have to leave the wall according to breaststroke rules as you have finished the backstroke portion.
Paul
