Popov says quit whining about the LZR

According to the graph on p. 195 of "Breakthrough Swimming", LCM world records per year: year # 1976: 58 1977: 10 1978: 31 1979: 11 1980: 24 1981: 10 1982: 14 1983: 18 1984: 24 1985: 9 1986: 13 1987: 10 1988: 22 1989: 8 1990: 4 1991: 14 1992: 15 1993: 1 1994: 13 1995: 3 1996: 5 1997: 3 1998: 2 1999: 24 2000: 33 Some of these might be +/- 1, as I eyeballed the graph to get the numbers

Paul - My comment was not about FINA, I was referring to an earlier thought where NASCAR was referenced, suggesting someone at a NASCAR race would have something no-one else did. I don't bash FINA, USS, USMS, or any other sport governing body. Sorry if I sounded like I was singling you out but when I see comments about how some elite swimmers can't get the newest suits, I get a little miffed. It's not Speedo that controls who can get what, I'm sure that Speedo (or ANY vendor) would love to see suits to the entire planet. It's individuals/teams/nations that have exclusive endorsement deals with a single manufacture that prevents access to products from a different vendor. Paul

I have been wondering.... Is it really that unusual for so many records to fall? How many records have been broken by the same people? And how many without the new suit? Could there be other influences than the new suit? Your questions can be answered to some degree by someone (not me) willing to invest some time. Records fall all the time of course, but -- without examining the historical data -- I would guess that they tend to happen in clusters to some degree. Whether this lastest batch is unusual, I don't know; it certainly seems that way. Of course there are other influences, such as the "Olympic year effect"; even the most ardent technophile should admit to that. So the question is to what degree the suit helps independent of those things. The best way to answer would be with controlled expts (several of them, at least) but I would guess that isn't going to happen. In the absence of that, the next best thing is probably to look at the progression of time improvements, like the authors of this paper did for WRs in a variety of sports, including pre-LZR swimming: (warning: not for the math-phobic, but an interesting paper) www.plosone.org/.../journal.pone.0001552 But, unless the samples are chosen carefully -- which may not be possible -- such a study will be subject to confounding variables (other significant factors that also changed and also affected results). I don't believe that such studies have been done either yet; too early, really. In the absence of this, we are left with guesstimates such as Schubert's 1-2%, which will undoubtedly (and unfortunately) be quoted as authoritative for quite some time. Another interesting article www.usatoday.com/.../2008-04-15-chicago-notebook_N.htm

Records fall all the time of course, but -- without examining the historical data -- I would guess that they tend to happen in clusters to some degree. Whether this lastest batch is unusual, I don't know; it certainly seems that way. I agree. Without the hard numbers I can't say with certainty, but I'd be willing to bet there's already been more new world records set in 2008 than any year since at least the mid 1970s. Actually, I take that back. I remember 1988 as being a big year for new world records. I'm sure more were set that year than have been set in 2008. Although it will be interesting to see how many "pre 2008" records are still standing at the end of this year. I don't think all the records will fall, but I think over 50% will.

I agree with Popov... On another note, that is funny about Amaury... his swim would have been all the talk if it was just a few weeks earlier... That drop in a 50, I'd even say is suspicious... but then when I look at this underwater from 2006, video.google.ca/videoplay I can see why he just wasn't a 50 man... I'd be willing to bet he has improved his underwater. I do know one clear effect of the LZR: no one is talking about PEDs much anymore. Amaury Leveaux drops 1.5 seconds in the 50 free to go 21.38, and the Smiths stay silent? Must be the suit! The LZR is going give any dopers a freebie this year, assuming their PEDs are undetectable.

I have been wondering.... Is it really that unusual for so many records to fall? How many records have been broken by the same people? And how many without the new suit? Could there be other influences than the new suit?

Also slightly interesting that over half the WRs are in 50 free (6) or 50 back (4). Yes, the 50 times have come down and the 100's less so (but more people are doing fast 100's). My theory, for what it's worth...... Some improvement may be due to the suit but I believe sprinters are being trained differently (even more sprinter specific) these days compared to 4 years ago. That video of the coach Boomer interview discussed this a bit ("cats vs dogs"). Popov trained differently from every one else but now his type of training has been fine tuned and used more widely. SCM records are being broken more because, not being Olympic events, they never got much attention in the past - and now there's money in it. Also there has not been much interest in SCM in the US with NCAA being SCY. Ian.

I have been wondering.... Is it really that unusual for so many records to fall? How many records have been broken by the same people? And how many without the new suit? Could there be other influences than the new suit? It is unusual for so many records to fall in a relatively short period of time. I think the 50 free record has been broken several times by at least two guys, but most of the records are by multiple people and disparate events. I think only one WR was broken in a non-LZR suit. This is an Olympic year. Lots of people around the world are peaking for the Olympics so it seems reasonable that fast times during Olympic trials will happen. Some records, like Popov's, have stood for some time (2000), so they were due for changes. Other records broken fairly recently, like some of Janet Evans' records, have been standing for a VERY long time. There have been some surprising record swims in the past year by Phelps and Coughlin in non-championship meets. So swimmers are swimming FAST right now. The USA Trials could be explosive.

This is an Olympic year. Lots of people around the world are peaking for the Olympics so it seems reasonable that fast times during Olympic trials will happen. Some records, like Popov's, have stood for some time (2000), so they were due for changes. Other records broken fairly recently, like some of Janet Evans' records, have been standing for a VERY long time. There have been some surprising record swims in the past year by Phelps and Coughlin in non-championship meets. So swimmers are swimming FAST right now. The USA Trials could be explosive. Thats what I was considering as well. It is an Olympic year, there is a huge pool of talent vying for a few spots at the top and its possible that a lot of swimmers are hitting their peak in their training at the same time. Throw in a new "super" suit and times aught to take off. Not necessarily because it makes you swim faster physically, but if you believe it does -that's a big mental boost. I'm afraid of what might happen if someone started setting records naked, would that start a new trend?:D

Lindsay,i remember that post and disagreed with it at the time.Everything I have read on shaving says it increases sensitivity.That is certainly my experience.What I think is interesting is they ,in my mind pretty well shoot down another Myth,namely that the main advantage of shaving was to increase sensitivity.I read that several places and it never made sense,as studies(instead of speculation) showed shaving decreased drag.Now the technical suits decrease drag and decrease sensitivity,showing the drag component is more important.(I am not saying increased sensitivity is not important,just that when world class swimmers have to choose between the 2 they choose decreased drag-or maybe they choose increased hype.)