The Fall of Auburn

I will say that I know Auburn swimmers, I know a fair amount of coaches in the college ranks and the questions I brought up have been spoken of by a number of people whom I respect and trust and in my opinion were worthy of bringing to a swimming forum to see what others may have heard or what they think as well. Pretty mean-spirited to bring up very vague, speculative second or third-hand rumblings about a respected coach. Not sure it's fair to gossip about Marsh when you aren't willing to be specific or name your sources. But, whatever floats your boat, I guess... I heard quite a few things about a couple of well-known male coaches' activities with certain female swimmers back when I was swimming that I wouldn't ever bring up here. They may well have been absolutely false rumors. It would be reckless of me to post otherwise. Edited to add: I hope you and David had a good lunch together the other day discussing all this information since I'm sure you wouldn't just backstab him on this message board.

The tone of this thread is pretty typical of the tone of sports in general these days. One off year (if you even consider a 2nd and 5th place to be off) doesn't really mean a darn thing. It's like all the crazy other sports where if your team doesn't win it all you replace the coach. But, I guess we have to assume the sky is falling at all times rather than have some historical sanity about it. First, no sports program ever in the history of the universe can sustain championship calibre for year after year. There are a few cases that could be used (Auburn swimming, UCLA basketball, Celtics basketball, and others) but, as a whole, expecting to finish first is unrealistic every year. And, the expectation that anything other that first yearly is the only possible outcome, is really crazy. Second, it is pretty well established that following a coaching legend will inevitably bring a drop in performance. I won't quote the ten zillion times this has happened but it does. Reading the threads these days all you get is doping, demise of swimming, a program gone bad. Hard to believe that right now the USA is actually probably the strongest it has ever been. There are actually a few of us that still enjoy swimming and aren't the black clouds of doom and despair. What a bunch of chicken littles.

Maybe Marsh legitimately was looking for a new challenge. I know that's a bit of a cliché, but with Marsh it could be true. How many total NCAA titles did Auburn win during his tenure? Really, what else was there for him to prove at the college level?

This thread got it wrong. Auburn's 2nd and 5th place finishes this year are nowhere near as shocking as 7-time women's team champion Texas getting 14th.

It's obvious that it's okay to throw accusations around on this forum with no regard to evidence. Somebody had to say it. :wine:

Putting aside your personal feelings/relationship...if ANY coach walks away from a chance to make history in thrie sport it begs some further scrutiny. If Eddie walked away from coaching the US Olympic team to coach Geeks kids at a club team you wouldn't bat an eye? But you get pissed off because I feel its important to bring up questions? A few of Marsh's various accomplishments: NCAA Women's Coach of the Year: '01, '02, '03 NCAA Men's Coach of the Year: '94, '97, '99, '03, '03, '04 SEC Men's Coach of the Year: '92, '93, '97 (co-coach), '98, '99, '01, '03, '04 , '05, '06 SEC Women's Coach of the Year: '93 (co-coach), '02, '03 Knoxville News-Sentinel Men's Coach of the Year: '93, '95, '98, '99, '01, '03, '04 , '05 Knoxville News-Sentinel Women's Coach of the Year: '92, '93, '03 "Inside the Auburn Tigers" Coach of the Year: '93, '96, '97, '03, '04 •Coached 1,312 All-Americans •Coached 40 NCAA Individual Titles •Coached 25 NCAA Relay Titles •Coached 178 Individual SEC Champions •Coached 52 SEC Relay Champions Internationally •Coached 52 athletes that won medals in 90 events •2004 Olympics had total of 12 Auburn Athletes Coached total of 22 Olympians •2006 United States Sports Academy Distinguished Service Award recipient •2005 Walter Gilbert Award recipient •2005 USA World Championships Assistant Men's Coach •2003 & 2005 USA Men's Mutual of Omaha Duel in the Pool Head Coach •2003 USA World Championship Head Coach •2000 USA Men's Olympic Team Assistant Coach •1999 USA Men's Pan-Pacific Team Assistant Coach •1996 USA Men's Olympic Team Assistant Coach •1995 USA Men's Pan-Pacific Team Head Coach •1994 USA World Championships Assistant Women's Coach •2003 & 1999 National Collegiate and Scholastic Swimming Trophy You think that not going for a sixth consecutive (men's, I assume) NCAA championship means he left in a scandal? That's very weak, indeed. He has accomplished quite a lot and, perhaps, that one thing might not have meant quite as much to him as it obviously does to you. He has a family. He has done more at Auburn than many coaches have done at any school. What if he had other plans? Why are you so very keen on assuming there is some conspiracy here? Again, I assert that your enthusiasm in posting about Marsh's "scandalous" behavior is nothing but gutless gossip. Either have the guts to be specific or admit you just enjoy spreading gossip. You keep saying you brought up the point to find out if others agree but I see no one agreeing with you here. Your comparison with Eddie leaving an Olympic coaching position to coach "geeks at a swim club" is pathetic. Try again. Or, better yet, get educated about what kind of position Marsh holds at MAC.

Your comparison with Eddie leaving an Olympic coaching position to coach "geeks at a swim club" is pathetic. I think he meant/said "Geek's kids," meaning Aquageek. I'm ducking back out of the crossfire now ...:bolt: (please don't beat me up, your last post was, um, comprehensive!)

Let me add a couple links: www.usoc.org/132_49610.htm www.usoc.org/132_49641.htm www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/.../12181.asp

Mr. Smith is a good guy and a pretty stand up guy. He raised a question, but I did not feel it was that out of bounds. Perhaps if we all stand back here, everyone can see each others posts for what they are; simple questions that are a natural progression given the facts that Coach Marsh left one position for another position that we do not normally see in college swimming at his level. No one assassinated his character or moral fiber---- Point taken but not I'm not necessarily in agreement. I think it's intellectually lazy to bring up insinuating questions about why Marsh left one position for another when one hasn't done any serious inquiry into his new situation. I also think it is a form of "character assassination" to imply that one knows Marsh left his former position because of rumors of scandal. I see that Mr. Smith has toned down his previous statement about knowing the MAC job is a step down. I toned down my original response 2 minutes after I posted it to omit what could be seen as censorship. Mr. Smith can talk about any conspiracy theory he'd like to on this board, but he'd better be prepared to face some opposition. And some ire at his enthusiasm in spreading rumors about someone who has done great things for our sport.

Point taken but not I'm not necessarily in agreement. I think it's intellectually lazy to bring up insinuating questions about why Marsh left one position for another when one hasn't done any serious inquiry into his new situation. I also think it is a form of "character assassination" to imply that one knows Marsh left his former position because of rumors of scandal. I see that Mr. Smith has toned down his previous statement about knowing the MAC job is a step down. I toned down my original response 2 minutes after I posted it to omit what could be seen as censorship. Mr. Smith can talk about any conspiracy theory he'd like to on this board, but he'd better be prepared to face some opposition. And some ire at his enthusiasm in spreading rumors about someone who has done great things for our sport. Amy lighten up! In no way did I ever attack or accuse Marsh of anything...in fact I've said several times I admire what he accomplished and based on some "gossip" as you say from people I trust (but won't put their names out) there MAY have been more to the situation than everyone thinks..again MAY is quite different than any so called character assassination....I think it worthwhile to talk about. If no one else thinks it merits any type of scrutiny here fine...go on to another thread...if on the other hand you personally are 100% certain and can verify that in no way anything remotely worth asking questions about ever happened at Auburn than go ahead and keep attacking me...I have thick skin. However if you are simply going off based on your "feelings" and want to sensor anyone who questions something you just don't like (so much for free speech) or even worse attack them (me) personally...then I can pretty much see your true colors. And by the way you mentioned earlier that you knew of coaches having inappropriate relationships with athletes but that you were far above ever bringing something like that up speaks volumes about you (talking about Mitch?)...John got assassinated on these forums because he provided a link to a story about an accused coach in Ohio....as if a person with credentials and achievements as a coach should be given a "pass" or never "judged" or investigated...or God forbid discussed on a swimming forum because simply doing that means your accusing/attacking someone!!! And for the record...yes I say a world class college coach on the verge of making history leaving Auburn for even the most respected USS team is a step down...go out and poll 50 club/college coaches for me on this and get back to me...give Salo a call over at USC and see why he left a club with the level of talent he had. And for the record again (slowing down, breathing, reading, thinking before typing advised)....I was taking a shot at Aquageek not calling MAC swimmers Geeks.... And last but not least....this should get your panties in a bunch...odds of 50/50 Marsh is back at Auburn or coaching another top level college by the 2009-2010 season!