After seeing a woman break 24 seconds and I think we can stop the discussion of "IF" the LZR suit is faster and start thinking "how much faster".
The previous line of suits (Fastskin and so on) were pretty similiar to a shaved swimmer. Sure - they do feel like they make you float, but overall the times seemed to move along "in line" with what I would expect to see in terms of improvements in the sport. If the previous suits would have been that much faster than shaving, you would have never seen people just using the legskins. By the way - for us Masters swimmers there was always the added benefit of keeping in all the "extra layers of skin".
So how much faster are the LZR suits ?
If I had to guess based on the results so far, I would say 0.25 to 0.30 per 50 and double that for the 100. I can see the Bernard going 48 low in the 100 and I can see Sullivan getting close or just breaking the 50 record. It makes sense that Libby Lenton would swim a 24.2 or so in the 50.
I think one of the top regular teams out there should do a test - you need a good amount of world class swimmers training together to be able to do a test. Here is the test I would propose:
8-10 swimmers
2 days of testing
4x50 on 10 minutes all out
Day 1 - swim 2 with a Fastskin2 followed by 2 with the LZR
Day 2 - swim 2 with the LZR followed by 2 with the Fastskin2
Get the averages of all 10 swimmers - maybe drop the high and low and there you go.
Why do the test ? I would HAVE to know. Swimming is a big part of your life and you just set a massive PR using this new technology - my very first question would be " How much was me and how much was the suit?"?
Marginal would actually be quite an improvement. That avatar is just for you two boys, the kings of disco.
You might want to change your seat angle...noticed your voice was getting a bit higher lately you hipster renaissance man you!
It's too bad people with a passion for swimming can only use that passion to try to stop inevitable change. Would be much more useful to work towards making swimming better. Turning back the clock on progress won't really get the sport anywhere. I bet you guys still wear Jimmy Connor grape smuggler shorts. Do you force your wives to watch flashdance on the betamax on Friday night?
BTW - my bike was 750 and I bought it used. Now, go off and sulk about lycra or non turbulent lane lines or anything else invented since 1971 for swimming. Because, as you know, in the words of your heroes, there's plenty of room at the Hotel Past-Glorification.
I agree with Geek. Man, this is getting to be quite a habit lately. John Smith is a whiney old lady on this subject. And, as Paul points out on another thread, a hypocrite because he is at this very moment scheming to lay his hands on a LZR.
I don't think we need to fear anyone wearing a LZR in PE.
I prefer the sensation of swimming better with FS on.
Hey Aquageek
The passion for swimming is what makes it attractive and if changes continue to take away that passion, most people’s interest in swimming will cease to exist.
How exactly are new suits taking away passion?
Please provide facts that support that pools are being drained due to "general lack of interest in the sport." I'm not taking that on your word alone. Pools are expensive to operate, have been since time began, so that argument is nothing new or unique.
I do have to disagree with Fort on Smith being a whiney old lady. To me, it's more like a bitchy old has-been.
Speaking of triathlon gear.... The LA Times has discovered the latest. And come up with a great quote in the process:
'They are called "triathletes," some say, because they'll "tri" anything that might shave a second or two off their race times -- no matter how far-fetched or astronomically priced."
Here's something fun you can try. Go to your local triathlon/multi-sport store and browse the wetsuits. Find one that adds friction in the forearms. (There are quite a few models that do so it shouldn't be too hard.) When the salesman wanders over, have him explain to you why having a rough texture on your forearms makes you faster. Then just go ahead and ROFL in the middle of his speech. When he gets annoyed and wants to know why you're laughing, say "thanks man, I needed that" and leave.
I do have to disagree with Fort on Smith being a whiney old lady. To me, it's more like a bitchy old has-been.
I do have to disagree with Geek on this. Smith is really an oddly cantankerous peevish record holder. Let's all set national records and complain.
Personally, I am much more passionate about swimming as a middle aged woman with a nice sleek fat sucking fastskin. It really beats :roids: and the creatine-laced-miracle-muscle-time-released vitamin B shakes the other Smith is using.
Here is what Schubert thinks in terms of the "suit":
"If you take best times of world record holders and their new times, the difference is 2 per cent. Nobody at this level can afford to give up 2 per cent. It is not rocket science."
Now we know ...
If the suit is supplying 2-3 tenths per 50 advantage why would anyone consider not banning it ?
Why would it NOT be considered "equipment" if the differential between using it and not using it is so great ?
John Smith
John - I could not agree more. What I am really worried about is "the next step".
What else out there can stabilize your core ?
Will we see bike helmets type of development in the water in terms of caps ?
How much floating ability will be legal ?
FINA doesn't have the guts to tell the largest sponser of swimming in the world their suit is banned, and subsequently take back all the recent World Records.
FINA doesn't have that kind of spine. FINA's only good at targeting weaker individuals performers.
The suit will be approved rest assured. It's all about the attention the sport is getting from the WRs and the suit. It has many of the elements of Major League Baseball twisted into a nautical plot. More home runs..... more WRs..... are they real or are they suspect for whatever reason.
John Smith
It's too bad people with a passion for swimming can only use that passion to try to stop inevitable change. Would be much more useful to work towards making swimming better. Turning back the clock on progress won't really get the sport anywhere. I bet you guys still wear Jimmy Connor grape smuggler shorts. Do you force your wives to watch flashdance on the betamax on Friday night?
BTW - my bike was 750 and I bought it used. Now, go off and sulk about lycra or non turbulent lane lines or anything else invented since 1971 for swimming. Because, as you know, in the words of your heroes, there's plenty of room at the Hotel Past-Glorification.
Hey Aquageek
The passion for swimming is what makes it attractive and if changes continue to take away that passion, the "inevitable change" will be that most people will cease to have any interest in swimming altogether.
In fact, too many colleges are draining their pools because of budget cuts and a general lack of interest in the sport. Also many high school and college students already hate taking P.E. and having to dress up in an uncomfortable suit is just another deterrent not to elect swimming.
Although improvements in pool equipment has made some things better, it’s perfectly obvious that the basic idea of swimming – being able to experience the unique sensation of having your entire body in the water- is not being made better by the additional coverage imposed by these technical suits. :shakeshead:
Dolphin 2 :)
