After seeing a woman break 24 seconds and I think we can stop the discussion of "IF" the LZR suit is faster and start thinking "how much faster".
The previous line of suits (Fastskin and so on) were pretty similiar to a shaved swimmer. Sure - they do feel like they make you float, but overall the times seemed to move along "in line" with what I would expect to see in terms of improvements in the sport. If the previous suits would have been that much faster than shaving, you would have never seen people just using the legskins. By the way - for us Masters swimmers there was always the added benefit of keeping in all the "extra layers of skin".
So how much faster are the LZR suits ?
If I had to guess based on the results so far, I would say 0.25 to 0.30 per 50 and double that for the 100. I can see the Bernard going 48 low in the 100 and I can see Sullivan getting close or just breaking the 50 record. It makes sense that Libby Lenton would swim a 24.2 or so in the 50.
I think one of the top regular teams out there should do a test - you need a good amount of world class swimmers training together to be able to do a test. Here is the test I would propose:
8-10 swimmers
2 days of testing
4x50 on 10 minutes all out
Day 1 - swim 2 with a Fastskin2 followed by 2 with the LZR
Day 2 - swim 2 with the LZR followed by 2 with the Fastskin2
Get the averages of all 10 swimmers - maybe drop the high and low and there you go.
Why do the test ? I would HAVE to know. Swimming is a big part of your life and you just set a massive PR using this new technology - my very first question would be " How much was me and how much was the suit?"?
Former Member
Here is an excerpt from the article linked by "quicksilver":
'There are buoyancy issues,' FINA Executive Director Cornel Marculescu told SwimNews.com. Any device that makes the body more buoyant is banned by FINA."
The word "cheat" is not used in the body of the article.
FINA is going to look into it, seems to be the point of the article.
How do they test for buoyancy?
Do they ask one to float on their back and see how high their torso lies near the surface?
That's not a great test since a little more or less air in the lungs will alter the results.
Sitting on a scale underwater with a LZR on will still make a 150 pound swimmer weigh 150 pounds unless they were donning bubble wrap.
Like Saran wrap it (the LZR) has a very low permeability. Meaning that moisture and air has a limited passage through the material. Since the suit holds very little water...it's conceivable to tug on it and fill the torso area with a pocket of air right before your event. Ergo the Buoyancy effect.
Former Member
I don't believe the buoyancy tests involve a swimmer. In the past people have complained that just placing the suit in the water doesn't take into account the way the bubbles seem to stick to the suits and/or air trapped in the suit.
Former Member
I don't believe the buoyancy tests involve a swimmer. In the past people have complained that just placing the suit in the water doesn't take into account the way the bubbles seem to stick to the suits and/or air trapped in the suit.
Agreed. A deflated balloon can and will sink.
A human essentially contains air for lack of better description.
Especially if they consume Mexican food as pre-competition meals.
Former Member
How do they test for buoyancy?
it's conceivable to tug on it and fill the torso area with a pocket of air right before your event.
Polyester does that.... traps air, I mean.
It can look pretty embarrassing at times if one is letting the air out as ssomeone is looking on.
Interesting article pointed out to me by my friend Dave Holland:
scienceofsport.blogspot.com/.../speedos-lzr-swimsuit.html
One of the points in the article and comments that follow it is the large gains due to detailed video analysis and biomechanics. These have been mentioned in this forum but I believe that they are not accorded enough weight. I also think training theory has been advancing slowly but surely. (Plus, the average heights of swimmers nowadays? Jeez, I felt like a midget when I mingled with the current members of my old college team.)
I also like how the article referred to these suits as "high tech doping," but that's just me...!:D
And here is another article Dave found
www.chinadaily.com.cn/.../content_6589002.htm
If the suit is supplying 2-3 tenths per 50 advantage why would anyone consider not banning it ?
John Smith
I suggest you listen to Diana Nyad's take on this. I'm sure NPR has a replay on their website. Nyad is also an elite swimmer from the 60s/70s but isn't so hung up on changing technology or holding on to fading glory. But, you guys don't stop thinking about yesterday, as Fleetwood Mac would say.
I think we should all advocate taking swimming back to the 70s to lose what little mass appeal we will gain this summer. We could get rid of title IX and dump all female swimmers, ban all suits made of anything but nylon, use wooden starting blocks and no goggles. That way the Smiths could stand proud for eternity! Of course, then my pathetic current breastroke would be fashionable again.
A futher benefit of regressing the sport to the point of obscurity would be no more discussions about the demise of boys swimming or how terrible all the females are to the sport. We could just argue about swimming going totally away. All in favor, stand up and say "I want to relive my glory days!"
I suggest you listen to Diana Nyad's take on this. I'm sure NPR has a replay on their website. Nyad is also an elite swimmer from the 60s/70s but isn't so hung up on changing technology or holding on to fading glory. But, you guys don't stop thinking about yesterday, as Fleetwood Mac would say.
I think we should all advocate taking swimming back to the 70s to lose what little mass appeal we will gain this summer. We could get rid of title IX and dump all female swimmers, ban all suits made of anything but nylon, use wooden starting blocks and no goggles. That way the Smiths could stand proud for eternity! Of course, then my pathetic current breastroke would be fashionable again.
A futher benefit of regressing the sport to the point of obscurity would be no more discussions about the demise of boys swimming or how terrible all the females are to the sport. We could just argue about swimming going totally away. All in favor, stand up and say "I want to relive my glory days!"
Says the man with the $7000 bike....we know where you stand on technology don't we!
Sell that piece of crap, get a PeeWee Herman cruiser and buy your with some Victoria Secret.
It's too bad people with a passion for swimming can only use that passion to try to stop inevitable change. Would be much more useful to work towards making swimming better. Turning back the clock on progress won't really get the sport anywhere. I bet you guys still wear Jimmy Connor grape smuggler shorts. Do you force your wives to watch flashdance on the betamax on Friday night?
BTW - my bike was 750 and I bought it used. Now, go off and sulk about lycra or non turbulent lane lines or anything else invented since 1971 for swimming. Because, as you know, in the words of your heroes, there's plenty of room at the Hotel Past-Glorification.
I bet you guys still wear Jimmy Connor grape smuggler shorts.
And Michael Cooper knee high socks baby!
And for the record Geek....we know the only reason your using that avatar is because over on tri.com you got booted for impersonating someone that can actually do 3 sports with marginal ability/success.
...marginal ability/success.
Marginal would actually be quite an improvement. That avatar is just for you two boys, the kings of disco.
FYI - Cooper played mostly in the 1980s, not the 70s. Actually, Flashdance was from the 1980s also. But, Freebird, now there's a song from the 1970s.
