After seeing a woman break 24 seconds and I think we can stop the discussion of "IF" the LZR suit is faster and start thinking "how much faster".
The previous line of suits (Fastskin and so on) were pretty similiar to a shaved swimmer. Sure - they do feel like they make you float, but overall the times seemed to move along "in line" with what I would expect to see in terms of improvements in the sport. If the previous suits would have been that much faster than shaving, you would have never seen people just using the legskins. By the way - for us Masters swimmers there was always the added benefit of keeping in all the "extra layers of skin".
So how much faster are the LZR suits ?
If I had to guess based on the results so far, I would say 0.25 to 0.30 per 50 and double that for the 100. I can see the Bernard going 48 low in the 100 and I can see Sullivan getting close or just breaking the 50 record. It makes sense that Libby Lenton would swim a 24.2 or so in the 50.
I think one of the top regular teams out there should do a test - you need a good amount of world class swimmers training together to be able to do a test. Here is the test I would propose:
8-10 swimmers
2 days of testing
4x50 on 10 minutes all out
Day 1 - swim 2 with a Fastskin2 followed by 2 with the LZR
Day 2 - swim 2 with the LZR followed by 2 with the Fastskin2
Get the averages of all 10 swimmers - maybe drop the high and low and there you go.
Why do the test ? I would HAVE to know. Swimming is a big part of your life and you just set a massive PR using this new technology - my very first question would be " How much was me and how much was the suit?"?
Perhaps the reason it's not such a big deal to you in golf is the same reason you don't think it's a big deal in masters swimming. However, what if someone tried to use a non-approved club or putter in PGA play? Do you think the other competitors would just say "no big deal?"
And, yes, I do realize these suits have all been approved by FINA.
So why even bring up the 'non-approved club' argument? And then mention that the new suits are approved by Fina?
And let's seperate the argument here.
If it's concern over Olympic competition, then it's not relevant because the suits are available to whomever wants them. And I'm pretty sure for no cost. And what other competitors at that level are up in arms over the suits?
If it's concern over Masters competition, well in the end, is it really that critical? Yes, it's great to win, but not everyone can. So it comes down to doing your best. I placed in the high 20s in every event at SCY Nationals with no hope of cracking the top 20 in anything but I had a terrific meet with 5 Masters best times. And there is nothing someone wearing a LZR can change about that.
golf and swimming are way different
the right tech suit could make way more difference than the right club
a properly fitting tech suit makes your body more aqua dynamic
I know I'm way faster wearing a Blue Seventy Nero Comp than my training suit.
Why is swimming so different than any other sport? Golf? Tennis? Bicycle racing?
I play golf and I play in tournaments. When I get beat by someone, I don't immediately race over to thier bag and see the latest Titanium-Super-Mega-Uranium driver and think that that's the reason I got beat.
Then again, at the Masters level, why is it such a huge deal? Sure setting records are great but is that a measure of a person? I sure hope not because I will not be setting any records anytime soon if ever. Does this make me less of a person than a Masters record holder? Not in my eyes and in the end, that's all that matters.
golf and swimming are way different
the right tech suit could make way more difference than the right club
a properly fitting tech suit makes your body more aqua dynamic
I know I'm way faster wearing a Blue Seventy Nero Comp than my training suit.
Ande,
Sorry, no they are not. In the last 2 years, since I changed out my 3 and 5 woods for new technology (and the equipment change I have made) , I have taken 4.7 points off my handicap index. From a 18.9 to a 14.2 which would equate to a 24.9% reduction. Now assuming that the equipment was responsible for half that difference, that is still a 12.45% reduction which sure beats a supposed 2-3% reduction from the new suits.
And yes, I know the new clubs have made a difference because, I track my stats when I play
Avg Distance
Old - Taylor Made Burner2 3W - 237.4 yds
New - Calloway X-Hot 3W - 256.9 yds
Avg accuracy (in yards measured from middle of fairway)
Old - 37.6 yds
New - 22.6 yds
Fairways hit (in percentage)
Old - 48.5%
New - 71.6%
Sorry, I'm a numbers geek who has a GPS :-)
So why even bring up the 'non-approved club' argument? And then mention that the new suits are approved by Fina?
Simply to show that technology is important and contentious in other sports. Heck, look at sports like Formula I.
I don't care about the speed ..the girls backsides look "biteable" in them though!
:whiteflag:
So don't linger around me in them...
Stud...I like your thinking!!!!
If everyone has an LZR, swimming remains pure in that the better athlete will win. Given the price, however, the winner at lower levels (high school, maybe Masters) may not necessarily be the better athlete but the richer athlete. This is an unfortunate direction for swimming to take.
In relation to Masters, so what? So I can afford just a regular pair of jammers and you have a Speedo LZR, that means what? In regards to each of us, it means nothing.
Unless you mandate that everyone wears the same thing, then what's the point? And if it does come down to that, then congratulations, you've turned swimming into NASCAR but without the crew chiefs to bend the rules.
I think you are putting waaaaay more value into a place finish than is warrented with regards to Masters. Not to discount anyone's view of Masters but, at the end of it all, a first place finish is just bragging rights, and your milage on that is limited to the willingness of people around you to put up with it.
Maybe it's me, but I would rather finish DFL and do a personal best than finish first with a time well off my current best. The value of that first place finish is nearly zero, at least to me. What does it bring me? A blue ribbon or a 'gold' medal? Sorry, not very thrilling. I had shoe boxes full of those when it supposedly 'mattered'
I am trying to figure if 2 bodysuits are legal.Any of you rules gurus have an opinion?
That's what I was thinking and posted earlier. Maybe Anna Lea will help us out as usual. I'd like to see the actual wording of the rule. There may be a loophole, but depending upon the wording, FINA could still interpret it to preclude wearing two suits or suits with 2-3 neoprene like layers. Also, as I recall there is a prohibition on ""buoyancy." I realize they've decided that the LZR and B70 suits don't violate this rule, but stacking them might. Isn't that why actual wetsuits aren't legal, they're patently, beyond any doubt, buoyant?
There are a couple of rules potentially in play here. Fina's General Rules speak to the swimsuit issue:
GR 5 SWIMWEAR
GR 5.1 The swimwear (swimsuit, cap and goggles) of all competitors shall be in good moral taste and suitable for the individual sports disciplines and not to carry any symbol which may be considered offensive.
GR 5.2 All swimsuits shall be non transparent.
GR 5.3 In swimming competitions the competitor must wear swimsuit in one or two pieces which shall not extend beyond the ankles, the wrists and the neck. No additional items, like arm bands or leg bands shall be regarded as parts of a swimsuit.
GR 5.4 The referee of a competition has the authority to exclude any competitor whose swimwear or body symbols do not comply with this Rule.
GR 5.5 Before any swimwear of new design, construction or material is used in competition, the manufacturer of such swimwear must submit the swimwear to FINA and obtain approval of FINA.
FINA Requirements for swimwear approval
GR 5.6 The manufacturers must ensure that the approved new swimwear will be available for all competitors.
And the Swimming Rules covers "devices":
SW 10.7 No swimmer shall be permitted to use or wear any device that may aid his speed, buoyancy or endurance during a competition (such as webbed gloves, flippers, fins, etc.). Goggles may be worn.
A cute response would be to argue that a swimmer wearing 2 suits is simply wearing a two piece suit within the meaning of GR 5.3. Perhaps the swimmer could argue that after seeing the now infamous shots of Phelps and Beard in the new LZRs, she or he was concerned about violating the transparency ban in 5.2, and hence felt a need to double up in an abundance of caution.
Seriously, GR 5 does not appear to prohibit a swimmer from wearing 2 suits (although note the curious matter of the missing "a" in the sentence "the swimmer must wear swimsuit". Perhaps something was lost in a translation?)
The only ground for protest would be to argue that the second suit constitutes a "device which may aid his speed, buoyancy, or endurance..." Given that Fina ruled that wearing one tech suit does none of those things, it would seem anomolous for Fina to find that wearing two somehow does.
