After seeing a woman break 24 seconds and I think we can stop the discussion of "IF" the LZR suit is faster and start thinking "how much faster".
The previous line of suits (Fastskin and so on) were pretty similiar to a shaved swimmer. Sure - they do feel like they make you float, but overall the times seemed to move along "in line" with what I would expect to see in terms of improvements in the sport. If the previous suits would have been that much faster than shaving, you would have never seen people just using the legskins. By the way - for us Masters swimmers there was always the added benefit of keeping in all the "extra layers of skin".
So how much faster are the LZR suits ?
If I had to guess based on the results so far, I would say 0.25 to 0.30 per 50 and double that for the 100. I can see the Bernard going 48 low in the 100 and I can see Sullivan getting close or just breaking the 50 record. It makes sense that Libby Lenton would swim a 24.2 or so in the 50.
I think one of the top regular teams out there should do a test - you need a good amount of world class swimmers training together to be able to do a test. Here is the test I would propose:
8-10 swimmers
2 days of testing
4x50 on 10 minutes all out
Day 1 - swim 2 with a Fastskin2 followed by 2 with the LZR
Day 2 - swim 2 with the LZR followed by 2 with the Fastskin2
Get the averages of all 10 swimmers - maybe drop the high and low and there you go.
Why do the test ? I would HAVE to know. Swimming is a big part of your life and you just set a massive PR using this new technology - my very first question would be " How much was me and how much was the suit?"?
Hi Rich,
I heard the same thing, from Neil Walker, at trials, some swimmers wore
an LZR for compression under the Blue Seventy Nero Comp for better surface
I wore an FS1 jammer under my b70 when I went 24.50
Stacking suits might help, especially B70's because they might trap air but with each one added I think they could restrict the legs a little weakening the kick
I'll try it in practice
Ande
I did hear from some people at rials that some swimmers would wear the LZR for core compression under B70. It's starting to get ridiculous. I may be wavering.
I think we should draw the line at one suit. One swimmer, one suit. Is it really legal to wear two suits? What does the rule say precisely?
2 B70s?! I'd get heatstroke.
Continuing further with my idea: When a U.S. swimmer wearing an LZR wins at the Olympics against swimmers who do not wear an LZR, how do we really know that the U.S. swimmer is the best athlete? This is why U.S. swimmers should not wear the LZR. When a U.S. swimmer wins, I would like to believe that they won because of ability, training, and determination, not technology. Unfortunately, any win, record, or other achievement by a U.S. swimmer wearing the LZR will be in doubt.
I don't want to give anybody any ideas but - they (Olympics - not Masters) will have to start checking swimmer's suits before or after the race. Who knows what you can use to make yourself faster. How do know somebody is not wearing a thin neoprene suit underneath ? Somebody might come up with some sort of very thin layered air insert - or helium. They will have to start checking - too much room to "hide" things.
FWIW, I test-drove my Nero Comp about a month ago in a meet warm-up (size 30). It was tough to get into (though having never worn a full body suit before I have no basis for comparison), but once it was wet it actually loosened up too much.
So I exchanged it for a sz 28, which yesterday I tried on and successfully zipped up. Not sure about bending over for a start, though - may indeed need to wear a jammer underneath.
Size-wize, I don't think I could get into a 26 - I'm 6'2" and 190, w/ 43" chest and 32" waist...
Continuing my idea: Do the swimmers who recently broke world records with the LZR actually believe they are better athletes than the swimmers whose records were broken? If an LZR really does provide an advantage, then are we not comparing apples to oranges. This is why I will never wear an LZR. When I break a record, I want to know that I broke the record because of my ability, training, and determination, not technology.
Bill,
I am not sure exactly what you are arguing here. So if hypothetically speaking, you broke a record from 40 years ago, you would only count it if you were competing under the EXACT same circumstances with exactly the same equipment as the person who set the record?
Technology marches on. This has been hashed/rehashed/re-rehashed/etc. Why aren't you complaining about the use of goggles? Lycra? Non-turbulent lane lines? Starting blocks? Electronic timing? Deeper pools? Better water filtration? Better temperature control? Pre-lims/semis/finals? High altitude training? Professional athletes? Sponsors? Etc? Etc? Etc? Jeez, gimme a break.
Right or wrong, the new suits are here and they sure seem to be here to stay. If everyone in the Olympics can use these suits, then how can anyone get an advantage? Sorry, I don't buy that the elite athletes can't get what ever suit they wish, so once again, what's the big bloody deal?
Do you play golf? Do you have a mashie or a niblick in your bag? How about tennis? I sure hope you're still using a wooden frame and cat-gut strings. Do you ride a bike? Yeah, that single speed must be a real bear on hills.
Advances happen in every aspect of our lives, it really seems Pollyanna-ish to expect sport to be any different.
Thank you for opening the door to personal attacks. If my arguments are "kinda whiney and defensive" then it is fair for me to say that your arguments are based upon a lack of intelligence and character.
Huh? Are you serious? I was referring to the nature of your argument, not you. Where is Sam Perry to scold you? Wookiee summed up my thoughts on the matter. Suits help, but they're not everything.
Why aren't you complaining about the use of goggles? Lycra? Non-turbulent lane lines? Starting blocks? Electronic timing? Deeper pools? Better water filtration? Better temperature control? Pre-lims/semis/finals? High altitude training? Professional athletes? Sponsors?
One difference between most of these things and the new suits is that these things affect the entire field equally. Yes, rule changes and better lane lines make it difficult to compare times from different eras, but everyone competing in a given meet gets the same advantage from these improvements. One of Czarazuk's point was someone getting out-touched by someone wearing a LZR. In that case it's possible the suit did make the difference.
Althugh now it's getting to the point where the new suits are available to everyone (at least everyone willing to cough up the money) so that might moot the point to a certain extent.
Althugh now it's getting to the point where the new suits are available to everyone (at least everyone willing to cough up the money) so that might moot the point to a certain extent.
Why is swimming so different than any other sport? Golf? Tennis? Bicycle racing?
I play golf and I play in tournaments. When I get beat by someone, I don't immediately race over to thier bag and see the latest Titanium-Super-Mega-Uranium driver and think that that's the reason I got beat.
Then again, at the Masters level, why is it such a huge deal? Sure setting records are great but is that a measure of a person? I sure hope not because I will not be setting any records anytime soon if ever. Does this make me less of a person than a Masters record holder? Not in my eyes and in the end, that's all that matters.
Perhaps the reason it's not such a big deal to you in golf is the same reason you don't think it's a big deal in masters swimming. However, what if someone tried to use a non-approved club or putter in PGA play? Do you think the other competitors would just say "no big deal?"
And, yes, I do realize these suits have all been approved by FINA.
