After seeing a woman break 24 seconds and I think we can stop the discussion of "IF" the LZR suit is faster and start thinking "how much faster".
The previous line of suits (Fastskin and so on) were pretty similiar to a shaved swimmer. Sure - they do feel like they make you float, but overall the times seemed to move along "in line" with what I would expect to see in terms of improvements in the sport. If the previous suits would have been that much faster than shaving, you would have never seen people just using the legskins. By the way - for us Masters swimmers there was always the added benefit of keeping in all the "extra layers of skin".
So how much faster are the LZR suits ?
If I had to guess based on the results so far, I would say 0.25 to 0.30 per 50 and double that for the 100. I can see the Bernard going 48 low in the 100 and I can see Sullivan getting close or just breaking the 50 record. It makes sense that Libby Lenton would swim a 24.2 or so in the 50.
I think one of the top regular teams out there should do a test - you need a good amount of world class swimmers training together to be able to do a test. Here is the test I would propose:
8-10 swimmers
2 days of testing
4x50 on 10 minutes all out
Day 1 - swim 2 with a Fastskin2 followed by 2 with the LZR
Day 2 - swim 2 with the LZR followed by 2 with the Fastskin2
Get the averages of all 10 swimmers - maybe drop the high and low and there you go.
Why do the test ? I would HAVE to know. Swimming is a big part of your life and you just set a massive PR using this new technology - my very first question would be " How much was me and how much was the suit?"?
Former Member
Some personal comparison times for the 100 Free:
Check 1: 2 weeks after Nationals (fully rested at Nationals) + had picked up lifting again. Speedo Fastskin Pro (Large Long - I am 6-5, 190 for sizing info) = 53.29
Check 2: 2 weeks after Check 1 - back in harder training + lifting at a local Masters meet - Blue 70 for Open water - NOT very tight fit = 53.72
Check 3: one week after Check 2 = Janet Evans, 2-3 days rest (did not want to get embarrassed - Speedo Fastskin Pro (Large long) = 52.72
Check 4: Today - Regional Masters meet - fully rested - lead-off for relay - Speedo LZR (Size Medium) = 52.20
Check 5: Today - 100 Free race about 1 hour after Check 4 - in Blue70 - size 28 = 52.48
What does that all mean ? I am not sure. More to come ...
In terms of net time, I went 0.5 seconds faster with the LZR compared to the Fastskin Pro (at the Janet Evans meet) -- I was fully rested swimming with the LZR today compared to 3 days rest - but then again, I did swim at the Janet Evans meet against a very strong field -- today I was all on my own.
By the way, overall today's time was less than 1 second slower than my all-time best.
Feel of the suits: The LZR was actually ok to get on - I was pretty careful and used a plastic bag -- it took me less than 3 minutes, but it was very tight to zip up. I did not shave my legs today, thinking it was not really neccessary with the suits - but there is a LOT of hair coming through the LZR on the legs - you have to shave. The suit felt good in the water - maybe a little higher than usual overall, but really not all that different from the Fastskin Pro.
Blue 70: Pretty easy to get on - again a plastic bag is a good choice. Big problem right before the start though - I bent down to get some water and the suit ripped a small whole right between my legs at the seam. It was tight - but not that tight. I think once you put it on and sweat a little bit (which is almost impossible not to) - the suit really sticks to your skin and you can rip it. I don't think it made a difference in the race. The material is totally different from the Speedo suit - nothing will get through that suit, very wetsuit like feel. Similiar body position in the water, little bit floating feel - but it's a 100 - you don't really check and see how things feel, you just go ...
Fastskin Pro: I really feel that this suit is pretty close to the LZR - except for the panels, the material is the same as in the LZR. If you can get a deal on this suit, it may be a good value - although retail is still pretty high.
Now I have to go and shave for tomorrow ....
very nice
congratulations
I have a feeling more records are going to fall with your name
you'll make it a little tougher for the next guy to break
Looks like I aged out of the 40 - 44 group just in time
Ande
M40-44 Long Course Meters Records
Event Name Date Time
50 Free
David Boatwright 07-13-03 24.14
World M.GIALDI 04/21/2008 ITA 23.86
100 Free
Rich Saeger 08-10-06 53.45
Erik Hochstein 05-18-08 53.29*
200 Free
Rich Saeger 08-10-06 1:55.06
400 Free
Dennis Baker 08-15-05 4:12.26
800 Free
Jeff Erwin 07-27-05 8:41.65
Some personal comparison times for the 100 Free:
Check 1: 2 weeks after Nationals (fully rested at Nationals) + had picked up lifting again. Speedo Fastskin Pro (Large Long - I am 6-5, 190 for sizing info) = 53.29
Check 2: 2 weeks after Check 1 - back in harder training + lifting at a local Masters meet - Blue 70 for Open water - NOT very tight fit = 53.72
Check 3: one week after Check 2 = Janet Evans, 2-3 days rest (did not want to get embarrassed - Speedo Fastskin Pro (Large long) = 52.72
Check 4: Today - Regional Masters meet - fully rested - lead-off for relay - Speedo LZR (Size Medium) = 52.20
Check 5: Today - 100 Free race about 1 hour after Check 4 - in Blue70 - size 28 = 52.48
What does that all mean ? I am not sure. More to come ...
Looks like I aged out of the 40 - 44 group just in time
As a 40 year old, I share none of your joy. Course I can still beat Stud by double digits in every event so I take solace in that.
Here's a photo of Michael Phelps using hand paddles.
www.usatoday.com/.../2008-07-31-phelps_N.htm
I presume these paddles are to build muscle by adding water resistance. However they increase propulsion efficiency and increase speed a lot more than just wearing a tech suit (such as the LZR) that purportedly reduces drag.
So in addition to FINA permitting "low drag" suits, why aren't devices that increase propulsion efficiency (such as paddles and flippers) also allowed? :dunno:
Dolphin 2
Erik,
Congratulations on some smokin' fast 100's. Extremely impressive efforts regardless of the suit. I remember Jack Grosselle going a 53 mid at1998 LC nationals in the 40-44 age group and I thought that was unreal. You're in new territory.
Rich
Thanks guys - I am overall very happy with the swims.
I just missed the 50 and 200 records - 24.24 and 1:55.70.
I think I needed a little more rest + I was missing 2 weeks of speed work. I was planning on swimming at Nationals and then had to fast forward 2 weeks when I realized that I could not make it to Nationals.
My 50 time was the same as at the Janet Evans meet on 3 days rest. It took me a while to get out of my taper funk (see my "I hate the Taper" rant) and my top speed was good, but I think I can go faster.
The long stuff will have to wait for another year - looking now to get as close to 50.0 as possible for scm - as a 40th b-day present. My PR is 50.2 ...
I came across another point of view on bathing suits while looking through Chuck Warner's excellent book about distance swimming in the 1970s (Four Champion's, One Gold Medal). In 1974 at Long Course Nationals, Tim Shaw felt pressured by Speedo and Arena to wear their suit . He decided to protest and wear an alternative suit several sizes too big. "His point was that the suit was not critical. He felt prepared to swim fast and a suit was not going to stop him. How fast could a person swim with a baggy suit, four sizes too big? Tim Shaw was going to find out" Shaw, at age 16, set world records in the 200, 400 and 1500 freestyles that weekend.
Think anyone would try to replicate that today?
Great swims. You are no doubt the resident expert on the various suits after your comparisons.
1. What suit did you wear for the 50?
2. What suit would you wear for your next race/record assault?
3. Would it be the same suit for the 50/100/200?
1. What suit did you wear for the 50?
2. What suit would you wear for your next race/record assault?
3. Would it be the same suit for the 50/100/200?
Good questions -
If you have an unlimited budget, you can slightly size even more down for the 50s. Yes - it did take 2 people to zip me up, but that is part of the reason these suits are faster. Everything is tight and tucked in. But it does get a little rough in the long races with the straps on your shoulders, so anything longer than a 200, I would go a little bigger.
I am going to stay with what I have right now - I will try to get my Blue 70 replaced (it ripped a little bit), and plan on using the LZR and the Blue 70 for a run at the scm records in December. I think the older suits can still be used (I have some TYR suits when we were sponsored and a Fastskin Pro) in non-taper meets. The LZR may wear out quickly, so you want to save it for when it counts.
