Hi all!
In this thread: forums.usms.org/showthread.php
...there are a lot of different opinions on how to lift weights in combination with swimming. The opinions are all spread out in between other comments and quotes so I thought I would start a separate thread about this topic as I think it might be of value for everyone to get it sorted out how and why you should lift weights in combination with swimming. If you know of another thread with exactly this topic pls let me know and i will add this comment in that thread instead.
My strong belief so far is the following (not at all stating that this is the truth, but it is the best theory I have heard so far):
You lift weights to become stronger
If you are stronger you need less % of your total capability to travel at the same speed you did before you bacame stronger.
This will lead to that you can swim at the same speed for a longer period of time OR simply do the same distance as before, but faster
This means that both sprinters and distance swimmers benefit from becoming stronger.
You don't want to build muscle mass, since that creates drag. However, for most of us this is not a problem because if you train on a regular basis in the gym, 3-4 times a week in a very focused way you might add on 0,5-1,0 kg/year....if you are under the age of 30. Above this age you tend to add on much less if anything at all.:cane:
You become stronger by lifting heavy weights. High reps does not make you stronger, it increases your endurance capabilies. Endurance you typically practice in the pool. I therefore focus on sets of 3-6 reps with heavy weights. The next week I focus on fast movements (beacasue heavy lifting is often a rather slow movement), reducing the weights to 60-70% of max to practice fast movements under pressure (like swimming, but to the extreme). The week after that is for high reps letting the muscles rest a bit but dont let them rest completely....then I start all over again.
I typically focus on basic exercises like: squats, dead lifts, bench presses, chins and a variety of stomach and lower back exercisesVery interested to hear your opinions of the above and also your own experiences.
/Per
Parents
Former Member
jazz, a few things:
1) Your postings come across as very ?my way or the highway"....given the quality of the coaches and swimmers on this forum you a re doing yourself a disservice with this approach....
Don't care. If you choose to engage me in an intelligent discussion of training methods, I'll be glad to go along. If you want to broadly contradict my points without presenting any real argument, you're on your own.
Compare, in general, the two opposing arguments here.
I say: Muscles are the system in the body that universally provides strength. Bigger muscles are stronger muscles. Therefore it should be beneficial for swimming strength to have relatively big muscles. My personal experience supports this.
You say: Look how fast Nick Brunelli is.
2) Because it worked for you is great and dropping to 21.5 is great...but the reason I ask is to put in perspective where you are coming from. I did not bring up Nick to put you down, I brought up Nick to show that one of the top sprinters in the world today is finding that he is having incredible success doing the exact opposite of you.
It doesn't surprise me that naturally fast swimers who practice swimming fast will have success in swimming. I'm more interested in how to train optimally. Just because someone is the best swimmer in the world doesn't necessarily mean they are the best possible swimmer, or even close.
3) So what are your 100 and 200 times? Sure added bulk and stength to a young (I'm guessing your early 20's, correct me if I'm wrong?) may allow you to muscle through a 50 (in a time that is good, but doesn't make finals cuts in most high school 5A 50 free races and would be a stretch for Top 10 masters in your age group). point being is bulk/strength to someone that never had it before is fine...but won't take you to an elite level.
I'll turn 22 next month. I don't think 21.5 is very fast. I want to be faster, but I have some obstacles, like the fact that I can't ever practice starts. I've put on some muscle since that meet, and I've been refining my sprint technique. We'll see how it goes in Austin.
By the way, thanks for insulting my swimming accomplishments again. It might be hard for someone like yourself to understand, but some people are not gigantically tall natural swimmers. I had to work to get down to 22.1, and I was very proud when I did it. I was also proud of my 49.2 in the 100. Do you want to make fun of that, too? For several years, 22 seconds was like a wall for me. Strength training got me through the wall. Why does it matter what level of competition it happened at?
4) Your comments to me about muscle strength relative to core strength, balance, etc. are simply incorrect. Sure muscle plays a very bug part...swimmers in both USS and masters that make it through to the top tier are foregoing brute strnegth training for more subtle gains from core training often achieved through things like yoga and pilates...which you laugh off.
Again, you are not providing any physiological perspective on how one gains strength, subtle or brutal, independent of muscle mass. I'll tell you right now that strength is also related to skill-specific adaptations in the nervous system, but I don't think you care. You're just being lazy in your thought process.
Try being a bit more humble and maybe opening your own mind to what some here on this forum have figured out after having done not just what you are just dicsonvering at a yound age..but a lot of differnt traning techniques over mny, many yeas.
Funny how I'm discovering something at a young age that you apparently never discovered in your many years of training.
jazz, a few things:
1) Your postings come across as very ?my way or the highway"....given the quality of the coaches and swimmers on this forum you a re doing yourself a disservice with this approach....
Don't care. If you choose to engage me in an intelligent discussion of training methods, I'll be glad to go along. If you want to broadly contradict my points without presenting any real argument, you're on your own.
Compare, in general, the two opposing arguments here.
I say: Muscles are the system in the body that universally provides strength. Bigger muscles are stronger muscles. Therefore it should be beneficial for swimming strength to have relatively big muscles. My personal experience supports this.
You say: Look how fast Nick Brunelli is.
2) Because it worked for you is great and dropping to 21.5 is great...but the reason I ask is to put in perspective where you are coming from. I did not bring up Nick to put you down, I brought up Nick to show that one of the top sprinters in the world today is finding that he is having incredible success doing the exact opposite of you.
It doesn't surprise me that naturally fast swimers who practice swimming fast will have success in swimming. I'm more interested in how to train optimally. Just because someone is the best swimmer in the world doesn't necessarily mean they are the best possible swimmer, or even close.
3) So what are your 100 and 200 times? Sure added bulk and stength to a young (I'm guessing your early 20's, correct me if I'm wrong?) may allow you to muscle through a 50 (in a time that is good, but doesn't make finals cuts in most high school 5A 50 free races and would be a stretch for Top 10 masters in your age group). point being is bulk/strength to someone that never had it before is fine...but won't take you to an elite level.
I'll turn 22 next month. I don't think 21.5 is very fast. I want to be faster, but I have some obstacles, like the fact that I can't ever practice starts. I've put on some muscle since that meet, and I've been refining my sprint technique. We'll see how it goes in Austin.
By the way, thanks for insulting my swimming accomplishments again. It might be hard for someone like yourself to understand, but some people are not gigantically tall natural swimmers. I had to work to get down to 22.1, and I was very proud when I did it. I was also proud of my 49.2 in the 100. Do you want to make fun of that, too? For several years, 22 seconds was like a wall for me. Strength training got me through the wall. Why does it matter what level of competition it happened at?
4) Your comments to me about muscle strength relative to core strength, balance, etc. are simply incorrect. Sure muscle plays a very bug part...swimmers in both USS and masters that make it through to the top tier are foregoing brute strnegth training for more subtle gains from core training often achieved through things like yoga and pilates...which you laugh off.
Again, you are not providing any physiological perspective on how one gains strength, subtle or brutal, independent of muscle mass. I'll tell you right now that strength is also related to skill-specific adaptations in the nervous system, but I don't think you care. You're just being lazy in your thought process.
Try being a bit more humble and maybe opening your own mind to what some here on this forum have figured out after having done not just what you are just dicsonvering at a yound age..but a lot of differnt traning techniques over mny, many yeas.
Funny how I'm discovering something at a young age that you apparently never discovered in your many years of training.
