Hi all!
In this thread: forums.usms.org/showthread.php
...there are a lot of different opinions on how to lift weights in combination with swimming. The opinions are all spread out in between other comments and quotes so I thought I would start a separate thread about this topic as I think it might be of value for everyone to get it sorted out how and why you should lift weights in combination with swimming. If you know of another thread with exactly this topic pls let me know and i will add this comment in that thread instead.
My strong belief so far is the following (not at all stating that this is the truth, but it is the best theory I have heard so far):
You lift weights to become stronger
If you are stronger you need less % of your total capability to travel at the same speed you did before you bacame stronger.
This will lead to that you can swim at the same speed for a longer period of time OR simply do the same distance as before, but faster
This means that both sprinters and distance swimmers benefit from becoming stronger.
You don't want to build muscle mass, since that creates drag. However, for most of us this is not a problem because if you train on a regular basis in the gym, 3-4 times a week in a very focused way you might add on 0,5-1,0 kg/year....if you are under the age of 30. Above this age you tend to add on much less if anything at all.:cane:
You become stronger by lifting heavy weights. High reps does not make you stronger, it increases your endurance capabilies. Endurance you typically practice in the pool. I therefore focus on sets of 3-6 reps with heavy weights. The next week I focus on fast movements (beacasue heavy lifting is often a rather slow movement), reducing the weights to 60-70% of max to practice fast movements under pressure (like swimming, but to the extreme). The week after that is for high reps letting the muscles rest a bit but dont let them rest completely....then I start all over again.
I typically focus on basic exercises like: squats, dead lifts, bench presses, chins and a variety of stomach and lower back exercisesVery interested to hear your opinions of the above and also your own experiences.
/Per
Pilates and yoga? Are you kidding me? I couldn't say anything about distance events, but I dropped an easy one second in the 50 free in a year by putting on 30 pounds of muscle, when nothing else had worked for a long time.
Pilates exercises are very valuable for swimming, both for performance and for injury prevention. They are all about strengthening the core muscles of the abdomen and back and the muscles that stablize the limbs in their sockets. I expect that most masters swimmers would get far more satisfying results from incorporating Pilates-style core strength training into their routines than by putting on 30 lbs. of muscle.
Pilates and yoga? Are you kidding me? I couldn't say anything about distance events, but I dropped an easy one second in the 50 free in a year by putting on 30 pounds of muscle, when nothing else had worked for a long time.
No he and I are not kidding you....
So what was the time you dropped to? I'll go out on a limb and venture to say you didn't go 19.1 SCY or 22.0 LCM? I bring this up because your mocking world class athletes like Nick Brunelli who just did those times without lifting (I posted about this on another thread).
I will agree that for a young kid of has never developed much muscle lifting certainly has its advantages and even for a certain segment of masters it could be beneficial...but the vast majority of masters swimmers in my opinion would benefit (if they had do do one or the other) more from Yoga than weights.
And you'd be absolutely wrong. Thirty additional pounds of muscle on the average male masters swimmer would not be an excessive amount of bulk at all, especially because muscle gain is usually associated with fat loss.
I was on a USS team that did tons of light-weight resistance training and "stability" exercises. It didn't make me faster. Muscle made me faster, which makes sense if you actually think about what muscle does. How can you have increased strength without it? How can you be significantly more stable and more powerful without improving the component of the body that provides stability and power?
Your statement here shows a complete lack of understanding of where the real "power" in swimming comes from which is our core (it also happens to be what provides the stabitlity you referaance)...not having big "guns". So explain to us how Michael Phelps who didn't do any real lifting until recently got to where he was in recent years?
Yes in the past 8 months he introduced weight training but not until he had achieved significant milestones in swimming through things like yoga and pilates supplementing his pool time...oh and he just so happened to also make a major adjustment by building his kicking to a level that propelled him to a 1:43+ LCM 200 free taking 9 SDK's off start and turns....kick more, train your core more!
Absolutely agree with everything above...particularly when talking about masters.
Here's the deal folks...forget about weights...if you REALLY want to make a significant break through in your swimming relative to competition stop swimming for 4-8 weeks and go to kick only workouts...as you ease back into swimming you will have the opportunity to "learn" how to integrate a new and powerful element to your stroke...something that 90% of the swimmers I see competing do not do well....
Take a closer look sometime and it will blow your mind....the vast majority of swimmers who are the best "kickers" in practice usually cannot use that skill/strength in a race......
Interesting since I am a great kicker, but it does not translate. It is frustrating not to be able to use it in full body swimming.
euhm...look at the photo...this is a relatively muscular body to my standards. I would be very surprised if some of the muscle mass doesnt come from the gym time he has spent. More muscles can be found here: www.filippomagnini.it/media_en.php
/Per
Yeah! compared to the "girls".
forums.usms.org/showthread.php
5. Over the age of 30, it is most certainly possible to add muscle, and more and more studies are showing that. Yes, you are fighting the natural aging process of losing muscle, gaining fat, but if you are diligent about it, you can gain muscles.
6. I happen to believe you need both the strength lifting and the endurance lifting as you noted. However, switching off after one week may not give you the benefits you want. I like to concentrate on a form for about 5-6 weeks, take a weight lifting break for a few days, then go into a different concentration. I see the best results in that manner. If I just lifted heavy on week 1, lifted endurance on week2, heavy week 3, I just think I would spend my weeks always sore. I just finished a heavy "rotation" of 5 weeks, and saw marvelous gains in strenth. Now I will do about 3 weeks of endurance, which and take a look at what I want to do starting the new year. Where I need to go, and what my goals are. I would say if you are in a competition season, you need to match those goals with your competition goals.
Weight lifters, don't forget how important stretch is to your strength gains. I have added 2 days of yoga in this year, and it has been amazing how it helps.
Pilates exercises are very valuable for swimming, both for performance and for injury prevention. They are all about strengthening the core muscles of the abdomen and back and the muscles that stablize the limbs in their sockets. I expect that most masters swimmers would get far more satisfying results from incorporating Pilates-style core strength training into their routines than by putting on 30 lbs. of muscle.
And you'd be absolutely wrong. Thirty additional pounds of muscle on the average male masters swimmer would not be an excessive amount of bulk at all, especially because muscle gain is usually associated with fat loss.
I was on a USS team that did tons of light-weight resistance training and "stability" exercises. It didn't make me faster. Muscle made me faster, which makes sense if you actually think about what muscle does. How can you have increased strength without it? How can you be significantly more stable and more powerful without improving the component of the body that provides stability and power?
yet so many people here insist that being "too bulky" is a legitimate danger for most swimmers.
I agree that's total hogwash. The same kind of mindset was prevalent in baseball until probably the '80s. The traditional train of thought was that extensive weightlifting would ruin a player's swing. Well, players have been bulking up and it's been paying dividends for them.
However, Jazz Hands, you're concentrating on the 50 free. Do you think heavy lifting would be as great a benefit for longer distances? I tend to think not. The 50 requires power. The tradeoff of power vs. aerobic fitness comes into play for anything greater than a 50.
You can make as many assertions as you want, but in my experience with different types of dryland training, "core rotation" stuff doesn't work, and heavy weight training does work for producing swimming speed. The difference is so dramatic it blew me away. When I heard that I split 20.9 on a relay, I thought somebody had read the scoreboard wrong. After several years of hard swimming and orthodox dryland training (always with a focus on my "core!"), I had resigned myself to the fact that I just didn't swim faster than 22 seconds. It seemed impossible.
But it was entirely logical. All motions in swimming are created by forceful contraction of skeletal muscle. Larger muscles are capable of producing greater forces. It couldn't be any simpler, and yet so many people here insist that being "too bulky" is a legitimate danger for most swimmers.
One more thing. My core is a lot stronger now than it ever was when my dryland training was supposedly focused on it. If you really want to know how strong your hips are, go see how much you can deadlift.
jazz, a few things:
1) Your postings come across as very ?my way or the highway"....given the quality of the coaches and swimmers on this forum you a re doing yourself a disservice with this approach....
2) Because it worked for you is great and dropping to 21.5 is great...but the reason I ask is to put in perspective where you are coming from. I did not bring up Nick to put you down, I brought up Nick to show that one of the top sprinters in the world today is finding that he is having incredible success doing the exact opposite of you.
3) So what are your 100 and 200 times? Sure added bulk and stength to a young (I'm guessing your early 20's, correct me if I'm wrong?) may allow you to muscle through a 50 (in a time that is good, but doesn't make finals cuts in most high school 5A 50 free races and would be a stretch for Top 10 masters in your age group). point being is bulk/strength to someone that never had it before is fine...but won't take you to an elite level.
4) Your comments to me about muscle strength relative to core strength, balance, etc. are simply incorrect. Sure muscle plays a very bug part...swimmers in both USS and masters that make it through to the top tier are foregoing brute strnegth training for more subtle gains from core training often achieved through things like yoga and pilates...which you laugh off.
Try being a bit more humble and maybe opening your own mind to what some here on this forum have figured out after having done not just what you are just dicsonvering at a yound age..but a lot of differnt traning techniques over mny, many yeas.
I really don't care what Michael Phelps does. And I really don't care that you have absolutely no idea what the function of skeletal muscle is in swimming (hint: you can't swim without using your muscles).
I have the experience with this. No one else on this board would even try what I did, including you. So how can you tell me that it doesn't work? The time I'm talking about is 21.5 in yards, and a 20.9 relay split (rt of 0.3). I think that's pretty good considering that I never broke 22 in high school, I only swim about 200 yards per workout, and my pool doesn't have starting blocks.
It's very frustrating that I found a great way to drop time, and nobody else will try it because it contradicts their preconceptions about training. Some would rather berate me for not being as fast as Nick Brunelli.
