Another World Class Swimmer Caught Cheating

Why does FINA, WADA and USADA waste money on testing athletes other than the top 8 at nationals and worlds? Do we ultimately care as much if cheaters are finishing 32nd at nationals? Why not channel proportionately more money toward the top finishers? Heck..... just test the top 3 if we want to make it easier on these organizations budgets. John Smith

Jumpin' Jehosophat! Les kicks the ball out of the stadium and the game comes to a grinding halt.

Why does FINA, WADA and USADA waste money on testing athletes other than the top 8 at nationals and worlds? Do we ultimately care as much if cheaters are finishing 32nd at nationals? Why not channel proportionately more money toward the top finishers? Heck..... just test the top 3 if we want to make it easier on these organizations budgets. John Smith Is it not important to at least attempt to keep the sport clean? What kind of message would it send to the 9-32nd place finishers? We only care about the medalists? Random testing of all top talent is best IMHO.

SCYfreestyler, Your philosophy is fine and noble if these organizations budgets could handle all the testing. Unfortunately, this is not the case. Better to focus on what can realistically be accomplished at a higher level and make it easier for these organizations to do a better job than to take a "shot gun" approach to the entire field with limited resources. Let's face it, the odds are there are not going to be as many cheaters the further down the rankings you proceed. John Smith

Why does FINA, WADA and USADA waste money on testing athletes other than the top 8 at nationals and worlds? Do we ultimately care as much if cheaters are finishing 32nd at nationals? Why not channel proportionately more money toward the top finishers? Heck..... just test the top 3 if we want to make it easier on these organizations budgets. John Smith Why does FINA, WADA and USADA waste money on testing athletes other than the top 8 at nationals and worlds? I would guess that FINA, WADA and USADA are not actively scanning a masters swimming discussion forum. So if you really care to find answers; why do you waste your time asking a bunch of masters? Why not ask FINA, WADA and USADA and then get back to us? Do we ultimately care as much if cheaters are finishing 32nd at nationals? I do. Cheating at any level is still cheating and should not be condoned or tolerated.

If money is an issue (I really have no idea if it is or not, just going on what you have thrown out there), raise the fees to swim at national and international meets. I was just looking at the meet sheet for the Santa Clara International and the fees are no more expensive than the average USMS meet. www.pacswim.org/0607scsc.pdf

Very well put Phdude: However, Marion Jones will never be able to repay the 2nd place finishers for their stolen time on the winners block. Every one of those 2nd place finishers were robbed of their just recognition, fame, accolades and endorsements that result from winning gold medals. We cannot quantify that; yet years later this cheater finally comes clean after living the good life off the spoils of her deceit, lies and illegal performance enhancing drug use. Big whippy do, she had to give the medals back and her records were erased from the books. My point is a simple one. The harm and damage caused by cheaters like Marian Jones is incredibly damaging and costly to those 2nd place finishers. It shattered and destroyed years and years of the 2nd place finishers honest hard work, courage, grit, persistence and determination (not to mention the cost of training all those years). Marian Jones’s naked greed and lust for fame and fortune destroyed a life time of hard work and dedication for those women who came in 2nd place. The only difference between Jones and the burglar that busts into your house is gloves a flashlight and a lock pick. She is nothing more then a common thief. Her punishment does not remotely come close to compensating for the harm and damage she caused. Not even close. My vote, let’s get serious and make the punishment commensurate with the crime. Who says the 2nd place finishers weren't on drugs too? The death penalty does not seem to deter determined murderers. I'm not sure jail time would deter athletes either. The athletes that are cheating will likely cheat anyway. If the possibility of death -- i.e., FloJo -- won't stop them, why would jail?

I wonder if the drug cheats ever get mad when a clean athlete beats them? Maybe in their skewed world view they're out their saying "all the money I spent on drugs and this guy/gal comes by who only had to buy a suit and goggles has the nerve to beat me!"

I wonder if the drug cheats ever get mad when a clean athlete beats them? Maybe in their skewed world view they're out their saying "all the money I spent on drugs and this guy/gal comes by who only had to buy a suit and goggles has the nerve to beat me!" LOL. I'm sure this happens. It's probably not just the top dogs taking drugs. Here's an article from today's Washington Post on the topic: www.washingtonpost.com/.../AR2007111301985.html

Stillhere, there are a couple fatal flaws in your analogy that breaks down your argument. The problem with stopping recreational drugs from being imported and sold in the USA is fourfold: 1) the people importing/distributing/using are all unknown until an investigation targets them, at which point a further investigation can occur 2) The distributors/users are constantly changing over time 3) There is essentially a limitless number of criminals compared to the resources we have available to catch them 4) We must catch these actors performing the action or attain enough evidence to charge them with a crime Catching performance-enhancing drug users is easier because: 1) There are only a certain set of people to investigate. For example, everyone participating in the Olympics, and we have all of their names, addresses, etc to locate these persons. I'm not saying everyone at the olympics is suspect, but we only have to find the users out of that population. This is in contrast with recreational illicit drugs, where the population we search out is the entire USA. 2) The population of elite athletes is a fairly constant group, with members lasting about 8 years on average 3)This number is of course, finite. 4) By participating in the competitions the athletes are allowing themselves to be subjected to invasive procedures to determine whether they are clean or not. There are issues with the robustness of the methods used to determine who is cheating, but we do have these advantages over the illegal drug trade in terms of how easily we can catch abusers. I do agree with your point, however, that the penalties have to be much more severe. If you distribute illegal substances and are caught in the US, you get a several-year timeout in a small cell. If you're an athlete that gets caught using, depending on the sport you're involved in, you're either given a slap on the wrist, a several game timeout, or a year ban from competition. All the while, the users give these pathetic excuses "Someone tainted my sample, slipped something in my Coke, etc...." The stakes are so high nowadays that winning a major event in the Olympics is worth several million dollars. The penalties for being caught should be so severe that no one thinks about taking shortcuts anymore. For example, Marion has made millions in endorsements and was a household name during the Olympics she did so well at. It is reasonable to believe she would have none of this if not for being a user. Since then, she has lost her good name. I believe that whatever parties possible would do the world of sports a favor by suing for damages for her misrepresentation, and reducing her financial status to what it would have been had she placed 5th in the olympics. I don't think jail time is necessary to prevent most athletes from using if this were to occur. Marion had it all, and beat the rap for several years. If she were to lose both her finances and reputation, what athlete would want to bother? Accomplishing nothing is far better than losing your self respect, having accomplishments taken away, and being reviled by your own country. Perhaps we can look at this issue in a different light. The United State Government, state & local police agencies along with hundreds of penal institutions spend billions of dollars each year attempting to stop illegal drug use. Drugs such as heroin, meth, cocaine and marijuana are still easily accessible to anyone who chooses to take these illegal drugs. Stopping the use of these drugs is similar to whizzing in the ocean to raise the tide. In short, it is a complete exercise in futility. Conversely, it has proven near impossible stopping or preventing cheating in organized sports through the use of illegal performance enhancing drugs. Again, the regulatory bodies are all standing on the beach together whizzing in the ocean expecting the tide to rise. It is NOT going to happen; especially if we continue in the current manner. Please do not take my word for this. Simply look at the Federal budget and the billions of dollars allocated to incarcerating criminals who sell and use illegal drugs as well as preventing them from entering the USA. Yet the Dutch Boy still has his finger in the dike and the water/drugs are still pouring into the USA nearly unabated. Perhaps it is time to do one of following: 1. Admit that our actions/policies & methods to eradicate illegal drug use are a complete exercise in futility and make these drugs legal. 2. Change the laws to make the consequences so sever that even the most hardened drug dealers wouldn’t dream of selling, importing or dealing drugs. 3. Make the penalties for performance enhancing drug use so severe that no athlete would dream of using drugs to gain a competitive advantage. 4. Make performance enhancing drug use legal. IMHO performance enhancing drug use is exactly like illegal narcotic drug use in the sense that we will NEVER be able to stop it unless we make the penalty so sever that it goes away. Or, we need to give in and stop whizzing our hard earned money down the drain in a complete exercise in futility, because we darn sure are NOT winning this battle. Think of the good the billions of dollars could do in education, medical care & research as opposed to literally pouring it down a drain we have known we cannot plug for over five decades. Either we get tough or we should all go home and sit on the couch, because what we are doing now is pretty stupid, lame, useless and costly.