Dara Torres-Amazing

Of course the position that Dara may use PEDs is purely speculation. But, that doesn't mean it doesn't warrant the discussion. What's a forum for ? . . . . . :-) It still find it interesting that someone with far greater talent like Spitz was unable to replicate Dara's success at 40. Let's face it, he didn't make any of his Olympic teams just on relays. The guy "owned" his events for years on the world stage. He never got disgustingly out of shape and trained seriously out in California in preparation for his comeback. We're not talking masters workouts here. He hit it hard on his comeback. While his times turned out to be very good and respectable for a masters swimmer, he was virtually slaughtered by the then current world best performers who were in their late twenties and early thirties. Oh but wait ! Mark didn't use a $100,000 for a team of specialist to give him daily massages and stretching.......... i.e. for those of you who still believe that Clemens is clean, that's code for "Smoke Screen". Take someone more current....... Gary Hall. A man in his early to mid 30s who never took two 6-7 year siestas from the sport. A man that is still at the top of his game in the 50. Do you honestly believe he will domiinate the 100m free this summer?..... let alone 6-7 years from now when he cracks 40? Gary is great.... he is phenomenal...... but that's really taking a break from reality to believe he could conqueor the 100m free at Nationals at age 40AND do a life time best AND potentially set an American Record. Believe what you want. Believe in Marion still if you want...... she may have admitted to cheating, but technically under Mr. Geochuck"s logic she is still inocent as she passed all her drug tests. And honestly.....do you really want anyone's blood or urine that was voluntarily donated on their own at their own discretion and timing? ........ Really people. John Smith

Mr thegoodsmith - You must remember I don't believe in the first place that they need to test anyone. They should use anything they want. They are not going to catch all the cheaters. It should be he who has the best druggist wins the race. Now I know everyone is going to say now - Geochuck you are going too far. But it is a fact now no one really knows who is using drugs even some who say they don't.

... 'roids or HGH or...

From the NYTimes last November... www.nytimes.com/.../18torres.html Behind my back people on USMS are saying I must be using something,” Torres said. “I know it. I hear it.” She has been tested for performance-enhancing drugs more than half a dozen times this year, and the results have been negative, said Mark Schubert, the national team’s coach and general manager. At Torres’s request, her blood is being drawn regularly so she can be tested for illegal substances like human growth hormone that cannot be detected in urine. “My attitude is, bring it on,” Torres said. “Do what you have to do to prove I’m clean.” So here is an invitation for the naysayers to devise an elaborate scheme to prove her guilty...or clean, as the case may be. Disclaimer: The USMS text in red is my own creation.

I find it funny that this has gotten so personal. As if more than maybe one or two of us (not me) even knows Dara on any level. It's difficult to make an accurate character judgement based on what you hear about people. I am skeptical about athletics at elite levels in pretty much every sport at this point. Does that mean I think everyone is doing drugs and I discount their every achievement? No. Does it mean I have a slightly sinking feeling when I look at elite level athletes and wonder if there really are athletes that are perfectly "clean" anymore? Yeah. But that's not the same as deciding I know they are doping. I like to hope that most of them don't use performance enhancing substances. But I can't say I'll be hugely surprised if ANY elite level athlete is proven to have used illegal substances. Skepticism (and perhaps cynicism) isn't a crime. It's not an accusation. It's just a state of questioning. Wish I could blindly skate through life and just assume the televangelists aren't scamming people for money and athletes now earning millions of dollars for their accomplishments aren't ever doping. That's just not my personality.

TJ Burke: I believe her to be a remarkable athlete and believe her to be clean.No disrespect intended. But what does "belief" have to do with anything? I've always thought news polls that survey beliefs were worthless. What is the point in polling the public as to whether they believe O.J. was guilty of murder? People's beliefs have nothing to do with the facts of his guilt or innocence. The only thing that matters are the facts. Are any of us in the position to know the facts about any athlete's performance (except or own)? No. Can we have feelings/questions one way or another without claiming to know? Yes. More power to Dara. I hope she's 100% clean and that she makes the Olympic team. But that doesn't mean I don't wonder if sports at that level for any athlete is truly clean.

I did notice today congress is checking to see if Clemens told the truth. Not guilty so far. He has not been charged, therefore he can neither be guilty nor not guilty. As with most recent doping matters, he will probably be examined for failure to tell the truth to either Congress or another such Federal agency. You will note that your boy McNamee is not being investigated further by our Congress. That should tell you something. There is no such thing as "not guilty so far." Guilt is not a sliding scale, you either are or aren't.

More power to Dara. I hope she's 100% clean and that she makes the Olympic team. But that doesn't mean I don't wonder if sports at that level for any athlete is truly clean. Me too. George, that's just nonsense.

What you are saying is all are guilty regardless of the truth. Everyone who is fast must be guilty because they are fast. Everyone who is fast over 40 is guilty - Why because they have a top 10 time. Is Ande guilty? I don't think so but he is fast he must be guilty.Huh??? So for you life is black and white? Yes or no as an easy definitive answer to every question? Do you not allow yourself to ask questions about things? That's all I'm doing. Admitting that I don't know and that I do wonder. BIG DIFFERENCE. If you can't see that I don't know how to help you! Not even wondering about those who are "fast". Mostly about those who are exceedingly great who stand to benefit financially/career-wise from that greatness. Just wondering. Not willing to assert that I know one way or another.

Just about as much as your stand on this subject. I want proof not what everyone thinks - that may not be true. You have previously admitted your steadfast belief in your Canadian national hero Ben Johnson until he was proven a total fraud a liar. Therefore, your track record speaks for itself on this matter. Further, you continue to dispute everything McNamee has stated, despite the fact that every single allegation about other athletes has been testified to as truth by those very athletes. You have also said you believe all athletes should be allowed and encouraged to take drugs. Your credibility is therefore shot on this topic. The honest discussion of this matter is interesting, the hyperbole and nonsense you bring is not.