Dara Torres-Amazing

The tests they give are more than likely not reliable if their testing was reliable then who knows how many have taken illegal garbage. I did not say she was clean. I did say or should say she may not be responsible. The fault could have resulted in her receiving false information. This post is bizarre. What evidence do you have that the current tests are not reliable? The tests seem to be very reliable in that they reveal the use of illegal drugs. Maybe you are trying to say they are not advanced to the point of catching all potential illegal substances, which is not a reliability issue. She may or may not be responsible? What does that mean? She isn't clean, that is a proven fact. She tested positive. You rant and rave about proof, what more proof do you need? Who else would be responsible for what someone puts in their body? False information? What are you talking about? It's not like this drug can be legal in the US, it is totally banned. What false information could she have possibly been given that would encourage her to take this? George - you previously took a stand on proof, now you have gone so far beyond that to speculation, bizarre theories and flat out lies. Your position is no longer supportable, in my opinion.

I've said this once before on here......IT DOES NOT MATTER how it got in to her system.........she is ultimately responsible for ALL Supplements taken. Unless someone tied her down and forced it down her throat....she is guilty! Ask Kicker Vencill......after winning his case against the company that "drugged" him he was still suspended for two years!!!! Because, he took the supplement voluntarily!!!!!

Please cite evidence to support these tests as not being reliable. I've asked you 3 times in the past day to support your assertions and you have yet to provide any evidence. So, it's really your opinion, unsupported by fact. What you take for your medical conditions is completely irrelevant. Stop dodging, start answering! Send all the emoticons you want, still won't change the fact that your are not reliable in supporting your views.

What I find interesting is: -How easy you can find Clenbuterol (and other products) for sale on the internet, and -How many discussion forums are devoted to body building and the use of performance enhancing drugs. I'm just glad that Masters swimming is clean.

Most master swimmers are clean because they shower before they enter the pool. What I find interesting is: -How easy you can find Clenbuterol (and other products) for sale on the internet, and -How many discussion forums are devoted to body building and the use of performance enhancing drugs. I'm just glad that Masters swimming is clean.

Most master swimmers are clean because they shower before they enter the pool. Perhaps we should take a poll...

Please cite evidence to support these tests are reliable. Here are my opinions www.usms.org/.../showthread.php Like What I take for my medical conditions is completely irrelevant. So is your opinion. Geek :dedhorse::dedhorse::dedhorse: So, can we just go ahead and assume you won't be backing anything you post with actual facts then? I'm done arguing with you, pointless and you change tenor hourly. At least tjburk is honest in his arguments.

George, What leads you to believe that the testing is not reliable. Sure there will always be cheats who get away with it. Otherwise nobody would cheat any more. I am not familiar with the science behind the analyses performed to test for doping, but even so, I place a fair amount of faith in it. The issue with the French Lab and Floyd Landis was that there were several errors in their procedures. That and the fact that his A sample tested clean. Some technician decided to test the B sample because they believed he was cheating. Now, not only did the tester know whose sample they were testing, even if they did produce a positive, it is no longer reproducible. The only reason for having an A and a B sample is so that a DIFFERENT lab can reproduce the positive test by testing the B sample. In addition, the French lab, the very same one that leaked supposed positive B samples from Armstrong to L'Equipe, didn't properly train their technicians, didn't have manuals for the testing equipment and didn't follow international testing protocols. I don't necessarily believe that Landis was innocent, but the lab certainly didn't prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he was guilty. I also agree with everyone here that an elite athlete who falls under the USADA anti-doping rules, is ultimately responsible for what goes into their bodies. T.J. Morton

Geek I hate to say this you are full of Crap. Well, that has long been established so you aren't breaking any new ground there. Again, will you be providing facts to support your assertions? I continue to wait.

George - I'm sorry, but that in no way proves your points in the least. It does not prove the tests are not reliable, it does not prove your point that coaches dope their swimmers, it does not prove your point she is not responsible. In fact, George, what you posted completely erodes your argument. Obviously, the tests are totally reliable but the enforcers may not ethical. Where is your evidence of reliability? So, again, please cite sources that support your statements. If your case is rested, expect an adverse outcome.