Dara Torres-Amazing

With all of the posting going on, it's hard to believe anyone around here works full time :mooning: We are just extremely efficient.

Not only is it obvious that Paul has had too much coffee...but also painfully clear that the man just has too much time on his hands. If he spent as much time in the pool than he does on the forum, he would (maybe) be able to beat Dara in the 50. Full point!!!!!

I'm not sure all of the facilities at most Universities were as easily accessible or as high quality for the women athletes back then. Even in the Land of the Dark Ages, we had a coed weightroom at the college I swam for - free weights and Nautilus - 1984 to 1988. The team lifted M, W, F in the mornings. As to women in general, weren't many in the weightrooms in the early to mid-80s. I can remember going into a Nautilus facility in 1980 with some of the girls on my Y team. We were the only women in there and got some strange looks. Now that society (notice I love to pick on society) says it is o.k. for women to lift weights, womens' clothing has become broad-shoulders and big-arms friendly. Thank goodness! Another thing that has changed since the 1980s is that it is more acceptable for women to be muscular and strong-looking. Another really good thing! I can remember my high school USS team doing weigh-ins and the idea that muscle weighs more than fat had not yet sunk in as to the females. I saw coaches set some pretty unrealistic standards for many gals. The weighs-ins didn't go on at my college (except for the annual physical) , but I heard that they went on at many colleges across the country. I've heard that one prominent swim coach at a Div. I school used to make all the "fat girls" sit at one table in the lunchroom and eat salads. Anyway, thank goodness we have gotten to an era where many female swimmers (although not enough because disordered eating remains a problem in this sport) can feel proud that they are strong-looking and muscular. I believe this is the main reason we have seen women make such big drops in the times in the last 10 years. No more worries about being model thin. The bigger the better! These advances, along with Dara's problems with an eating disorder at a younger age and her recovery from it at a later age, have lead me to almost believe in her.

I can remember my high school USS team doing weigh-ins and the idea that muscle weighs more than fat had not yet sunk in as to the females. I saw coaches set some pretty unrealistic standards for many gals. The weighs-ins didn't go on at my college (except for the annual physical) , but I heard that they went on at many colleges across the country. I've heard that one prominent swim coach at a Div. I school used to make all the "fat girls" sit at one table in the lunchroom and eat salads. My college coach wasn't bad about this, though we did record our weight on our weekly logs. That may have been more about not losing too much weight. I think I know which coach Elise is talking about though I heard a few different stories about weigh-ins and coaches during college. Even my (normally nice and supportive) USS coach weighed me after a not-so-great performance at a sports festival my sophomore year of H.S. Nice message he was sending there, huh? It was hard to be a women's swimmer back then and not be more focused on being model thin as opposed to healthy. I was told, when I was a freshman in high-school and had put on a few lbs, that Sippy Woodhead used to laugh at her competitors who were "overweight". Now, that may or may not be true, but the focus then was on being thin and not on what the best competition weight for each individual should be.

No, but pictures of women remaining active and healthy way into their 40's? Yes. Don't blame the epidemic of body image on athletes...you are joking right? I'd love to see what an olympic athlete eats on an average day. Body image is less to do with keeping fit and more to do with crappy media glory of virtually impossible 38-22-30. Eat less crap, move about a bit more and stay active, even if you're big you won't be as big and your internal health will be better. Elise, respectuflly, here and with earlier comments you made, you seem to add support to the "valuation system" for females and how their worth declines as the years and pounds go on, or they have kids and then should morph into mothers with no life for themselves! Wow! You are making some pretty strong assumptions! Too bad I was writing my post as you were posting this one. I think you will see where I stand on the issue of women and fitness. Appears that you are assuming that because one likes the idea of staying at home with kids instead of working that one believes that women should become nothings and get fat. Far from it! A woman staying at home does not mean she does not have a life. Far from it! Many such women do volunteer work for the community and have part-time businesses out of their homes. Many stay-at-home moms work out while their kids are at school. Alot of us are in better shape than the working moms because we have the time. The societal pressure to be thin and much of this has been through the media, is not good. You are in the dark ages worse than I if you don't see the problem. Spain and Italy, recognizing the problem, have taken steps to get rid of the too-thin image of women in their society. I understand that models in those countries have to have a license to model now and lose it if their BMIs fall below 18. A good move that our country should take on.

Swimstud, I think you can make some basic generalizations from the 3 sets of photos. In her mid 20's she did not have the definition she has now. In her mid 20's she did not have the bulk and mass she had in 2000. Her physique now is even much more "ripped" and trim than in 2000. There are 3 different looks to her career. John Smith Like Stud, I find the photos inconclusive. She's just altered her training regimen dramatically over the years. Yes, she looks very ripped, but the way she trains, it's not all that surprising is it? Or is that kind of physique only acquired by drug use? I too lifted weights in college. I'm confident there have been significant advances in weight training and dryland training since Dara's teenage years. I likewise agree with Stud on the crappy media glory of Hollywood bodies. It's just not the prevalent view that "bigger is better;" girls are inundated with messages to be model thin. Most teenage girl swimmers I know don't want to lift weights because they don't want to be muscular. Sad, but true, in my experience. Now you're making assumptions about the relative fitness of working moms vs SAHM, Elise ...

Now you're making assumptions about the relative fitness of working moms vs SAHM, Elise ... And some working mothers are more fit than mothers that don't work. Just defending the non-working moms - we aren't cows who don't have our own life and spend 24/7 with our kids.

No, but pictures of women remaining active and healthy way into their 40's? Yes. We've already had a good example of that - Jane Fonda.

The Sectionals championships are underway in Austin right now. Just like I have done for several years I watched dozens of heats of fast swimmers. I see no problem with pictures of women with low body fat. We have a fat problem, not a thin problem, in America. I don't think it's quite that simple. I think the "thin problem" is part of the "fat problem". If more people focused on health instead of "fat" or "thin" we'd be much better off. We all have different body types and the myth that we can all look like one ideal has caused many to just give up being healthy.

We've already had a good example of that - Jane Fonda. Not a fan of fake boobs ... I hate the word "cow" to describe women. Really, exercise seems to be correlated with your desire to do it, not with whether you work or not. I've pretty much worked out the same whether I was working full time, part time or not at all. My swim meet observations are the same as Hofffam's. Nice point, Amy!