Dara Torres-Amazing

Anyone have an iota of proof that she is not the real thing? Other than just speculation?

Anyone have an iota of proof that she is not the real thing? Other than just speculation? Of course not. Were there any proof, she would not be going to Beijing.

Geochuck - Actually I live near some of the best professional female triathletes in the country. Professional female triathletes are the epitomy of leaness and power combined. Many of these women have actually hit their best times well up into their 30s. Triathlons, however, are primarily endurance -oriented. Also, please note that there is a difference between toned abs and bulging ab muscles on women. I would bet your wife had the former. Also, I have to scold you a little. You are scolding folks about making assumptions about Dara. You made the assumption that I live in Philadelphia. You couldn't be further off. I live in the land where more women have won Miss America than any other part of the country. No need to attack just because I am skeptical of Dara. Based upon what has been written in these threads, it seems the common belief is that endurance based events are more difficult to maintain elite performance levels in than sprint events. Or perhaps the PB times you are talking about are not elite level.

Tracy...although all evidence from this forum may lead you to believe the opposite...I don't live my life as a sad, angry, hateful, skeptic...I'm actually quite an optimist. the fact that you had no knowledge of failed drug tests is evidence enough you are far away from this "world". But the fact is you base your beliefs simply on your "heart"...not from daily communication with athletes and coaches close to this stuff, not from your own personal experience getting to a fairly high level of training/racing (not masters) and seeing first hand what's its like to try and make these break thru's, seeing the physiological changes of athletes around you that have cheated up close and personal...bottom line is I'm hopeful but also a realist in that I think there is far more cheating going on in swimming than people want to accept and if we want a cleaner sport we need to scrutinize anomalies such as what Dara has achieved....notice I said scrutinize. Did you mean that for Iwannafly? Or me? The post is from Fly.....

It is a tough time for Dara. Ten years ago, before BALCO and the increased publicity surrounding doping in the Tour, we would have been more accepting. Another thing that hurts Dara is Dara. She is living an unconventional lifestyle for a 41 year old mother, is drawing attention to that fact, and is proud of it. If she was low-profile, got married right out of college, was still married to the same person, and had a couple of pre-teen or teenage kids, I think we might be quicker to embrace her. This is what society expects of a 41 year old woman. Interestingly enough, from the folks I have talked to, the ones that are the hardest on Dara are women my age with an extensive swimming background, Dara's peers so to speak. Women, and I can say this since I am one, are the hardest on each other. We don't like it when one of our own doesn't conform to society's ideal. I am a bit conservative, and being the mother of a son, I would want my son's wife at 41 to be a litte bit more focused on her home and her family. It is, however, Dara's life and she is free to do what she wants with it. I am just trying to analyze why so many people are being hard on her.

Of course one could just as easily continue your representation of opposing views here with E) I'm old and can't do my lifetime bests, so obviously no one can without doping. I am currently doing lifetime bests so that isn't my excuse. It is a good one, however.

That actually kind of proves my point....Bonds had people around him saying they saw something.....most all of the people that eventually have come up positive in some way or another have had someone around them say they "saw" something out of the ordinary, or they heard them "say" something......I have not heard one person say they saw her doing anything that could be construed as illegal. The questions about Bonds & McGuire came about because the guys became mutants as well as put on a show of power never before seen in baseball...at relatively late stages of their careers. By the way, the changes in appearance brought on by the clear & the cream during that time (20-30lbs of muscle and a bulky physique) of balco seems to mirror the physical change as well as improved performance of a number of other athletes (including some swimmers) as well...but remember there was no test for this stuff at that time. Coincidentally as we fast forward to the last 4+ years the "cocktails" of choice seem to have moved to variations of HGH/EPO/steroids which produce a far more lean physique (cyclists have had it for years) and a very weathered look but the same incredible power output...did you happen to see Stallone in his latest Rocky?

Ok, let's do this a different way.......... You are the prosecuting attorney.....tell me how you would present your case to the jury to make them believe you.......... This isn't a court of law. It's a discussion forum. You don't need to continue to tell us she hasn't tested positive. We know that is a fact. There are shades of gray here, no harm in discussing it. It would be one thing if we did this on our own but since she was the first to openly acknowledge it, there is no issue with us talking on it. I will admit that my position is eroded since a co-conspirator just admitted to watching the latest Rocky movie.

I just can't believe that she would risk becoming the most shamed, grandest sporting fraud of all time. She would be ruined, and unless she desires to live the remainder of her life as the most despised user of all-time, I can't see her having doped.I know why you say this, as it makes logical sense. I used to think that way too, but not after watching the Tour De France for a few years. All of those athletes are being tested - many times throughout the tour. Therefore, you'd think that since they *know* that they *will* be tested, they'd be insane to actually try to dope and get away with it. However, time and time again we find out that one of the top athletes has a bad day, falls down in the rankings, etc. and then resorts to extreme measures by doping. The next day they make a miraculous comeback, get tested, get busted, get thrown out of the tour and they're off the team. In other words, Floyd Landis and Alexander Vinokourov shouldn't have ever done what they did, as it would assuredly result in being 'ruined', 'shamed', and viewed as a 'sporting fraud'. So as illogical as it seems to one of us that they'd actually be so desperate and take such risks, it really does happen - quite often in fact.

If she was low-profile, got married right out of college, was still married to the same person, and had a couple of pre-teen or teenage kids, I think we might be quicker to embrace her. This is what society expects of a 41 year old woman. Women, and I can say this since I am one, are the hardest on each other. We don't like it when one of our own doesn't conform to society's ideal. I am a bit conservative, and being the mother of a son, I would want my son's wife at 41 to be a litte bit more focused on her home and her family. It is, however, Dara's life and she is free to do what she wants with it. I am just trying to analyze why so many people are being hard on her. Blech. :eek: I don't personally agree with ANY of these statements and I'm a 40 something mom. And maybe you should check out the divorce rate. It's hardly unconventional. And get married right out of college?!?! I've told my youngest it's illegal to get married before 30. Jim: Geek can't invoke option E and he really hasn't. He previously stated that no master can really compare themselves too well to Dara -- and he's right.