Dara just one the national title in the 100M Freestyle in 54.4 at the ripe old age of 40. Simply Incredible. :applaud: :woot:
If that's not inspiring I don't know what is.
I am not attacking, it is just that this whole thread is about accusing Dara without proof.
Wrong George. This whole thread is about "QUESTIONING" Dara based on her performance and physical transformation.
Answer me this....do you support random, year around drug testing for all swimmers?
If you answer yes than you show suspicion, if you answer no than you support your position that all is good in the world and cheating doesn't exist and we should all shut up.
For Paul - what do you think of Dara's very proactive position on testing? As a doubter - do you just believe she is just incredibly confident that her regimen is foolproof and cannot be caught by either today's or tomorrow's testing? Is she just willing to risk it - and the complete disgrace that would occur if she fails a test next year?
I expected nothing less. And for the record I hope she never dos fail as it would be a huge black eye for our sport...and hopefully something comes out of it that can help all of us get better.
On the other hand Balco's clear/cream were undetectable and Bonds & Marion stood up and shouted down everyone accusing them until an insider sent in samples that ultimately led to the discovery of these undetectable PED's....they were pretty confident as were all the others involved with that lab.
Look at the Tour de France...as one journalist said after Beltran just tested positive for EPO "you got to be an idiot to be using anything with all the testing going on"....pretty confident guy along with the 20 others who the day before yesterday had samples with problems requiring "B" samples to tested....more positives to come I'm afraid.
The 24.56 that she posted at USMS SC Nationals in 2006 shortly after giving birth to her daughter has me convinced that she is not cheating. I am assuming that she wouldn't have been endangering her child by "juicing" during her pregnancy or during nursing.
Hence, this time is very impressive given her physical condition at the time (she could be seen walking somewhat gingerly around the deck). I think we can agree that she was not in the optimum condition to swim competitively given the circumstances. It is my guess that this performance has not been achieved by any other 39 year old female swimmer so soon after giving birth. In fact, it could also be called an anomaly. I highly doubt that she was benefitting from performance enhancing drugs right after giving birth.
I think that Dara Torres' swimming talent is the true anomaly. Take perhaps the best technical female freestyler, add in a 6+ foot frame, and a focus on conditioning that we have not seen from a 40 year old female swimmer before...then I think you end up with performances like we saw at Olympic Trials (regardless of age). I choose to be impressed with what I saw and to reserve judgement where no proof otherwise exists.
Remember, not a lot of "ultra elite" swimmers have attempted what she has. Many Olympic champions throughout history simply gave it up after their first Olympic triumph because they were not granted the resources that are available to today's Olympic heroes and most others did not entertain thoughts of an historic "comeback" such as this.
Perhaps it was the 2006 USMS performance that gave her the confidence that it could be done and that it was worth pursuing.
Having said all that, it is also not fair to say that fans should not be suspicious. Because of today's performance enhancing climate, unfortunately, everyone (not just those with extraordinary accomplishments) needs to be scrutinized. For now, random testing and testing during championship events is probably the best way to achieve this.
No implications here. Since we are discussing PEDs, if anybody is interested, there is a really good article on gene therapy and athletes at www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A42270-2005Mar16.html. Shocking! No way to detect and may never be!
Actually its just the opposite, reaction time, speed, power and fast twitch muscle is all the first to go...endurance can continue to be developed into the late 30's/early 40's but typically even there it is rare for an elite athlete to make incremental improvements in times.
If you watched the trails and listened to some of Rowdy's commentary and read any of the other articles discussing this anomaly of an athlete they all said the same thing as well as pointed out how slow Dara was off the blocks
So why is it then that most of the "older" athletes at the elite level are swimming the shortest events?
I recall them saying how slow her RT was and that Natalie really creamed her off the walls, but her stroke and the power she developed made up for that in the 40 meters that lay ahead.
The best part of that article...
The animals' red blood cell counts did indeed double in 10 weeks -- a potential boon for marathoners and other endurance athletes. But the monkeys' blood became so thick that it had to be regularly diluted to prevent heart failure.
Perhaps the cheaters will suffer life altering/ending consequences.
Now. Now. Let's not wish physical harm on folks. You already have to feel sorry for somebody that has their identity so tied up in winning that he/she has to resort such things.
Remember, what you mention above is just an example of one gene that can be manipulated. Apparently there are others. I wonder what happened to the mice that got their leg strength increased? What is alarming is that the article was written over 3 years ago, so we can only assume that the technique has become more refined.
I have read that WADA is desperately trying to come up with some kind of test to detect this before the Olympics. Apparently, gene therapy with athletes is out there or else they would not be pushing so hard to have a test in place. Still, from just reading about it, it looks like it would be very difficult to detect.
When I raced my standardbred race horses. We would claim them in claiming races.
They were so loaded with junk that our vetrinarian would have to bleed them to let them produce fresh untainted blood. Sometimes when they were bleed their blood was like thick syrup and it did not flow.
Just think of the damage that can be done to humans.
George...my family was in the horse business for 3 generations...it's probably the only "sport" dirtier than cycling and bodybuilding. Can't even begin to tell you how horrible I saw people treat these beautiful creatures...my first thoroughbred (Toppers Son) came off the track as a 3 year old, we had him for 4 years before he died of cancer...
"Horse Racing Officials Move Toward Steroid Ban"
www.nytimes.com/.../28horses.html
Tracy & I wannafly...although all evidence from this forum may lead you to believe the opposite...I don't live my life as a sad, angry, hateful, skeptic...I'm actually quite an optimist. the fact that you had no knowledge of failed drug tests is evidence enough you are far away from this "world".
But the fact is you base your beliefs simply on your "heart"...not from daily communication with athletes and coaches close to this stuff, not from your own personal experience getting to a fairly high level of training/racing (not masters) and seeing first hand what's its like to try and make these break thru's, seeing the physiological changes of athletes around you that have cheated up close and personal...bottom line is I'm hopeful but also a realist in that I think there is far more cheating going on in swimming than people want to accept and if we want a cleaner sport we need to scrutinize anomalies such as what Dara has achieved....notice I said scrutinize.
Well said, though I don't feel I have ever questioned your knowledge of the sport or how well connected you are within the community. Your comment about "your own personal experience getting to a fairly high level of training/racing" is a valid point...except that swimming in HS in the late 70's and early 80's in SoCal I saw my fair share of swimmers that were trying chemicals (other than recreational) for swimming. I always stuck with recreational!!! LOL Swam against some of the top swimmers back then and thought about going that direction.....in the long run as Robert Frost put it:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.
So, on matters of knowledge from inside...I defer to you. But, I still don't see with how things evolve, how what she is doing is impossible...incredible? Yes.
