Dara Torres-Amazing

Very good points. My husband has gone to all my puny meets. . . The poor guy has to sit on a beach for 6.5 hours next week. Thank goodness he has a PSP and mp3 to entertain him. My wife timed my 10k postal swim a couple years ago. And put up with my grouchy wiped out self afterwards. I still can't convince her to go to a practice though... Skip

(how about we take Paul's Jackass-o-lantern comments to the NSR thread and get back to Dara?) Did anyone else notice that Dara's partner was MIA for all but the beginning of Trials? They showed him the first night in the stands with Tessa and the rest of the Torres' - and he wasn't to be seen again. Maybe he was elsewhere in the stands or had to go back to work... The NYT article on Dara had a quote from him gave me the impression that he was sick and tired of this training thing, since all Dara's time was focused on that and nothing on him. She calls him her "partner" and not "boyfriend." She wanted to start her family w/o committing to him (aka marriage). I wonder if that relationship is on the rocks. Very good points. My husband has gone to all my puny meets. . . The poor guy has to sit on a beach for 6.5 hours next week. Thank goodness he has a PSP and mp3 to entertain him.

(how about we take Paul's Jackass-o-lantern comments to the NSR thread and get back to Dara?) Did anyone else notice that Dara's partner was MIA for all but the beginning of Trials? They showed him the first night in the stands with Tessa and the rest of the Torres' - and he wasn't to be seen again. Maybe he was elsewhere in the stands or had to go back to work... The NYT article on Dara had a quote from him gave me the impression that he was sick and tired of this training thing, since all Dara's time was focused on that and nothing on him. She calls him her "partner" and not "boyfriend." She wanted to start her family w/o committing to him (aka marriage). I wonder if that relationship is on the rocks. I thought I saw him in the stands for the 50 free ... Training with extreme intensity and devotion, tunnel vision and an "I have to get 9 hours of sleep bedtime after I dote exclusively on my kid" has to be hard on a relationship. After 2 divorces already though, I can see why she might be less keen on marriage. And didn't she have a comeback in mind during her pregnancy? (S)he, your husband is obviously smitten! Although he probably wants to make sure you don't die or drown during your latest insane endeavor. I'm happy when Mr. Fort watches the kids who might die of boredom if they had to watch more than one event once a year.

The good and the bad will for sure live on. I forgot to say it right The Good and The Bad Smiths. Chuck...You've inspired me to update my avatar!

I don't think suspicion is a bad thing. Perhaps we would all be wiser if we were more wary and less accepting all the time. I am sure there are cheaters out there but I am not convinced that Dara is a cheater. The doubters seem to base their suspicion on: (I am simplifying now, but I think these are the essence of the arguments) a) We have been burned in the past (Jones, Bonds, Johnson, etc) therefore, we can be burned again. b) No one as old as Dara has done it before therefore, it is unlikely, if not impossible. c) There are drugs out there for which no tests exist and Dara could be using one of those drugs. Yes, we have been burned in the past and I have no doubt that we will be burned again in the future by finding out that someone we believed in let us down. But that is grounds for suspecting Dara? I don't buy the 'it's never been done before, therefore it can't be done' argument either. There is always a first time. If this weren't true we might as well all throw in the towel right now. Twenty years ago it was almost inconceivable that anyone could have done a sub 22 second 50m let alone someone in their 30's (GHJ, Mark Foster). Now we all know it can be done. Yes, she might be using a drug for which no current test exists but this could be true of any elite level swimmer. Once again I see no reason for singling Dara out for this line of argument. Can I prove her innocence? No, I can't, neither can she, nor anybody for that matter. It's a bit unfair really. Of course you could see it as the price any outstanding athlete has to pay. Do something extraordinary and you are going to be suspected. It hasn't seem to upset her, though. She recently said she took the accusations of cheating as a compliment to her success. And, succeed she has. She is only being paid all this attention because she is such a phenomenom at 41. I do think the strongest argument in her favour is her willingness to be tested for drugs. I have no idea if it has been done already but it has been suggested that blood samples could be frozen for the future when a more comprehensive set of tests exist. Even the head of the USADA said anyone using drugs would be crazy to submit to the tests that she has. The thing is I don't see the suspicion as totally unreasonable but it's not convincing enough to make me a doubter. So I am sticking with what I first maintained: Innocent until proven guilty.

So I am sticking with what I first maintained: Innocent until proven guilty. Absolutely. What does one really have to lose by giving her the benefit of the doubt anyhow? There's no money on the line, no lives will be lost, etc.. It might result in a :doh: moment if she is ever found to be a doper, but life will still go on.

Let us now be suspicious of everyone who does well. Why do we have to broadcast our own personal suspicions as if they are true. Barry Bonds, are we sure about him yet???? Did he do it illegally? What some are saying is everyone uses drugs but they have not been caught. Are drugs illegal? Some are. Is an aspirin illegal it helps with circulation. Some have been caught using transfusions of other peoples blood. What if they store their own blood and use it the day of the race, are they going to get caught.

SCYfreestyler: We agree on one thing..... "clean" or not..... life will still go on. John Smith

The good and the bad will for sure live on. I forgot to say it right The Good and The Bad Smiths.

I still wish someone would tell us what it takes for her to prove her innocence. The closest we are likely to come to proof is replication by someone, or enough people, that doping loses it's "only explanation" status. If one or more other swimmers that people trust try Dara's training regimen and make similar improvements then the "no one else has ever done it" argument collapses. Unfortunately, Dara's background is somewhat hard to duplicate in the short term!