Dara Torres-Amazing

Paul, I could swear that I read about aging athletes having a better chance at staying at the elite level with short events rather than endurance events, on this forum and in these Dara threads. They are so long now that it's tough to find what I am remembering. But as I mentioned, there are some notable sprinters who could be considered world class at ages over 30, but who over the age of 30 is swimming high level 200 fly or 200 ***? What about 400 IM? A portion of my theory (not sure if I made this up or read it earlier!) is based upon the fact that a sprinter can get away with less yardage than a 400 IM'er, and thus the shorter events are less taxing on the aging body. I've looked a bit for supporting evidence but have not found much thus far. Edit: Interesting info about the benefits of creatine.

More defined than normal. When I stay away from the donuts, mine can get pretty defined. Alas, they are not there now. What if I tried HGH or gene therapy? Would it not, along with a good diet and exercise program, get me there a little faster? Very likely, you would get there a little faster.

I don't think this is a good assumption. Lots of smokers continue to smoke through pregnancy. Drinkers probably continue to drink. If you're a drug cheat it's likely you've convinced yourself that the drugs aren't dangerous, so why worry about your baby? And for the record, I'm not saying I think Dara is cheating, just that this isn't any kind of evidence that she's clean. Yeah, not really. Although Type AAA+ people (Dara's words) tend to be pretty paranoid during pregnancy. While her time of 24.56 is impressive, there are many faster or equally fast times from non-Olympians in her age group and even in older age groups. If she exercised regularly during her uncomplicated pregnancy and was in amazing shape, the time is not too surprising. It looks like she then dropped over 2 seconds speedy quick.

Well, if you were a mesomorph would you really need HGH to get defined abs? Or are you saying if you did, it would only make them more defined than normal?

Paul what I used to do is feed all of my race horse with balanced nutrictoinal foods. I had seventeen horses in my stables at one time. I used to ad pure apple cider vinegar and a couple of drops of lugols solution of iodine to their feedings of mixed grains. The lugols solution of iodine kept blood free of fevers they could catch around the barn. The hay I feed was a good mix of timothy and a little alpha. I never feed my horses 3rd cutting of any hay. Before I fed the hay I always washed it. I allowed them free access to mineral salt and dried minerals. Never used drugs on my horses. Maybe we should put Landis & Bonds on that diet?! :)

I saw a picture of Dara in the New York Times dated July 29, 2008. What bothers me is her abs. Has anybody seen a 41 year old MAN with that kind of definition? I've worked out with a number of professional female athletes under 30 that do not have that kind of definition. Believe me, they also do 90 minutes of core work a day. Can somebody find me a pic of a woman over 35 who has had a baby in the last 2.5 years that has abs like that? Can somebody find me a pic of a woman over 35 who has not had a baby that has abs like that? Something does not seem right. www.cathe.com. Cathe is 44, has two children in elementary school. The other women in her videos are also in their early 40's. Jari is in her 40's, not sure if she has children: www.rippedworkout.ca/.../photos.htm I could pull a lot more video fitness instructors in their 40's up, and especially the Tae Bo folks. It is their business to look ripped, so in their videos, they reduce their bodyfat down to a low point, but not as low as Dara's, which really shows those abs off. Cathe did a video 6 months after the birth of her first child and her abs were absolutely incredible in the video. I am sure it took tons of hard work, but that is the point, a person whose job is to do this work has the time to get their body in this type of shape. Dara is not getting up at 4 am so she can get her work-out in, child up to daycare and rush off to work, her entire focus is this. Don't think there are too many 41 year olds who can do that.

I have wondered why our 400 I.M. stars and distance freestylers tend to peak at a younger age while, as I mentioned, you see many athletes in other endurance sports improve into their thirties. You raise a good question that would be interesting to research. Swimming isn't a true endurance sport. You can't compare a 400 IM that takes four minutes and change, or even a 1500 that takes ~15 minutes to something like a 50K cross-country ski race or a marathon. The 24.56 that she posted at USMS SC Nationals in 2006 shortly after giving birth to her daughter has me convinced that she is not cheating. I am assuming that she wouldn't have been endangering her child by "juicing" during her pregnancy or during nursing. I really don't think this is a good assumption. Lots of smokers continue to smoke through pregnancy. Drinkers probably continue to drink. If you're a drug cheat it's likely you've convinced yourself that the drugs aren't dangerous, so why worry about your baby? And for the record, I'm not saying I think Dara is cheating, just that this isn't any kind of evidence that she's clean.

Tracy & I wannafly...although all evidence from this forum may lead you to believe the opposite...I don't live my life as a sad, angry, hateful, skeptic...I'm actually quite an optimist. the fact that you had no knowledge of failed drug tests is evidence enough you are far away from this "world". But the fact is you base your beliefs simply on your "heart"...not from daily communication with athletes and coaches close to this stuff, not from your own personal experience getting to a fairly high level of training/racing (not masters) and seeing first hand what's its like to try and make these break thru's, seeing the physiological changes of athletes around you that have cheated up close and personal...bottom line is I'm hopeful but also a realist in that I think there is far more cheating going on in swimming than people want to accept and if we want a cleaner sport we need to scrutinize anomalies such as what Dara has achieved....notice I said scrutinize. Well said, though I don't feel I have ever questioned your knowledge of the sport or how well connected you are within the community. Your comment about "your own personal experience getting to a fairly high level of training/racing" is a valid point...except that swimming in HS in the late 70's and early 80's in SoCal I saw my fair share of swimmers that were trying chemicals (other than recreational) for swimming. I always stuck with recreational!!! LOL Swam against some of the top swimmers back then and thought about going that direction.....in the long run as Robert Frost put it: Two roads diverged in a wood, and I-- I took the one less traveled by, And that has made all the difference. So, on matters of knowledge from inside...I defer to you. But, I still don't see with how things evolve, how what she is doing is impossible...incredible? Yes.

can i get in on the insults? no kids to pass anything negative to.

When I raced my standardbred race horses. We would claim them in claiming races. They were so loaded with junk that our vetrinarian would have to bleed them to let them produce fresh untainted blood. Sometimes when they were bleed their blood was like thick syrup and it did not flow. Just think of the damage that can be done to humans. George...my family was in the horse business for 3 generations...it's probably the only "sport" dirtier than cycling and bodybuilding. Can't even begin to tell you how horrible I saw people treat these beautiful creatures...my first thoroughbred (Toppers Son) came off the track as a 3 year old, we had him for 4 years before he died of cancer... "Horse Racing Officials Move Toward Steroid Ban" www.nytimes.com/.../28horses.html