Dara Torres-Amazing

As far as talent goes, who knows she might be as talented or more so. Why do you think Spitz was more talented? (I am curious not accusing) There you go.

Like never testing positive on any drug test in her life or a boat load of Olympic medals? Pretty flimsy. Like claiming it means anything that someone "never tested positive" when they were not continuously tested (ie, were retired) and when the steriod scandals of the last however-many years have centered around undetectable substances, including those which are indistinguishable from naturally occuring substances and are only tested for in the sense that they must be below a certain threshold. And they are relay medals.

My wife says that too and she also has a wealthy dad, but not so prone to doling out the cash. I bet if you asked 100 swimmers over age 35 who is the most talented swimmer of all time, you'd be lucky to find 2 or 3 to say Torres. If you told them to exclude Phelps, you'd still be lucky to have that many Torres votes. This takes nothing away from her or Rowdy (who runs a great clinic BTW, shameless, non-paid promo) or Biondi or even my hero Stud. This is better than a sports bar argument, no smoking, plenty of fire, however. Now, if it's silly to compare talent, and stupid to compare comebacks, why did you bring it all up, out of curiosity. If you asked 100 swimmers you'd have 100 OPINIONS. Are you kidding with they why did I bring it up? I didn't!

It's like arguing with a brick wall ... My wife says that too. I bet if you asked 100 swimmers over age 35 who is the most talented swimmer of all time, you'd be lucky to find 2 or 3 to say Torres. If you told them to exclude Phelps, you'd still be lucky to have that many Torres votes. This takes nothing away from her or Rowdy (who runs a great clinic BTW, shameless, non-paid promo) or Biondi or even my hero Stud. This is better than a sports bar argument, no smoking, plenty of fire, however. Now, if it's silly to compare talent, and stupid to compare comebacks, why did you bring it all up, out of curiosity.

FlyQueen, If you want to compare talent to Spitz on the female side you need to draw from greats like Tracy Caulkins and Mary T......... this is the level we are speaking about. Dara is stellar but never "owned" an individual event the way these people "owned" their events. John smith I never said she did. But she obviously has got mad talent since she has 9 Olympic medals, which is 9 more than I'll ever lay my hands on. Maybe I'll hit my stride in my 30s ... Maybe Katie Hoff before long? She seems to be the female Phelps at least. The girl is amazing. I also think sprints are the hardest thing to dominate.

So, apparently you aren't really curious at all. To me, Spitz has a more impressive swimming resume and that leads me to believe he is or was or whatever more talented, in case you are curious. Debating who was better in different sports eras is one of the best things about sports, and sports bars, and beer. Woods/Nicklaus, Wilt/Russell, etc. It's like arguing with a brick wall ... I am not taking away from Spitz's achievements at all. Making an Olympic team is unbelievable, medaling is amazing, getting 7 golds in one Olympics is superhuman. What I am trying to say is comparing Spitz's attempt at a comeback with Dara's is stupid. He may have won more medals in a single Olympics than Dara, but Dara has 9 medals. That's right, just as many as Spitz! Spitz won more in a single Olympics Dara qualified for four teams, and likely will qualify for a 5th. I would argue that had she kept going she'd be going for her 7th. You can compare their careers all you want, but not their comebacks. Spitz's times were right around the times he went 20! years previously and Dara's are around the times she went 7 years ago. Her's are still good enough to qualify her, his were not. She stayed in phenomenal shape for all her years off - Spitz not so much.

Don't you find it interesting that Susan Von Der Lippe (i.e Rapp) a multiple Olympic team member *** in individual events *** is currently not able to final or place in the top 3 at US nationals let alone win. Susan's talent and efforts are startling for her age (i.e. 1:12 100m *** made cuts for trials) No really, because breaststroke times have improved much more than freestyle times in the last 20-25 years. Susan Rapp made the '84 team with a 1:11.39 in the 100 ***, so she's not far off that time now. Granted, breaststroke rules have changed to improve times whereas freestyle hasn't. However, by Susan's own admission she's overweight and doesn't train very hard (www.usaswimming.org/.../ViewMiscArticle.aspx "How has your training changed since your Olympic years? I don't think I can call what I do now training. I used to swim 12,000-14,000 yards a day. Now it takes me a whole week to swim that far. I think I'll be the least-trained swimmer at the 2008 Trials. I know I'll probably be the fattest too. My husband said that since I made the Trials cut, I can now call the extra tummy fat that I earned from having two kids my "power pooch". Before, it was simply a pooch. " You can't really say the same thing about Dara.

What I am saying is you can't control your circumstances either and things are constantly changing which is why it is somewhat silly to compare Spitz and Torres. So, apparently you aren't really curious at all. To me, Spitz has a more impressive swimming resume and that leads me to believe he is or was or whatever more talented, in case you are curious. Debating who was better in different sports eras is one of the best things about sports, and sports bars, and beer. Woods/Nicklaus, Wilt/Russell, etc.

Mr Goodsmith: The Spitz comparison is a very weak one. Spitz did not stay active the way Dara did when he made his comeback. He took 17 years off from swimming and from physical sports activity. Spitz is probably the most talented swimmer ever. His workouts were legendary because no one did workouts like he did and was able to be that good. When Spitz tried to make a comeback he managed to go :58.03 in the 100 meter Fly and the Olympic Trial qualifying time was :55.59 and he wasn't even close. Dara Torres goes to Stanford last year and goes :25.98 leading off a Relay that I know you were a witness to and easily makes the Olympic standard without any publicity. That fact that it took Spitz 2 full years to do a time that came up almost 2.5 seconds from qualifying and it took Dara qualifing easily after having a baby 3 months before the swim says something. Plus I don't believe Spitz went to any of the big competitions that Dara has gone to and the only races I remember seeing him in in his comeback were the TV prize races against Biondi and Jager where he was soundly beaten. There was a lot of incentive for him to do this because Bud Greenspan was going to make a film of his comeback if he were successful. The fact that his :54.27 time in 1972 would have placed him 3rd in the 1989 USA LCM rankings made people believe he could do it. My understanding is that Dara is doing this on her own and there are no financial incentives attached yet. It will be interesting to see how far she goes and what happens. You are correct about Rowdy. He was 29 when he missed making the 1988 Olympic team by .07 in the 100 Meter Free. You still have not answered my question. Do you believe that Dara Torres is using performancing enhancing drugs and is that the reason for her success? I agree there are more drugs and illegal supplements out there but does that mean that Dara Torress is using performance enhancing drugs?

And I *gasp* disagreed with you and questioned you. I should probably be beated for such a front. Thanks for clearing up that bit about not being able to control when you are born. What I am saying is you can't control your circumstances either and things are constantly changing which is why it is somewhat silly to compare Spitz and Torres.