Dara Torres-Amazing

Evil One, Do tell us how Dara was able to beat your time from Stanford last year in the 100m free yesterday....... :-) John Smith

Fair enough...I have to admit I've changed my opinion a bit in the last year. Why? As to Geek, I also recall him saying he'd try any new hocus-pocus "potion."

Bonds is a lot like Rasmussen, there is very strong circumstantial evidence to say that he is doping, but there is nothing solid. Other than the fact he admitted to taking the "clear" and the "cream." Flax seed oil, c'mon. You wanna know how lame he is, watch the Real Sports on HBO interview with Gary Sheffield, Bonds' training partner for a while. Watch Gary stutter, shuffle, twitch and evade on the steroid and Bonds thing.

What is "illegal" in USMS swimming? I have never seen a list of "banned substances" I guess if some are on crack or heroin, that would be illegal. It is my OPINION that many probably take HGH, roids, whatever you want to call them. That is their problem, not mine. If they beat me in a race being on that stuff good for them, but last I looked it isn't illegal, ehtics are a whole different discussion. Just curious, Sam, but why do you think that? Not that I'm surrounded by hundreds of elite masters swimmers 24/7, but offhand, I can't think of anyone that I think is taking drugs. Although I'm "skeptical" enough to suspect that some are somewhere, despite how "pathetic" GoodSmith says it would render them. Ego is omnipresent, as some girl points out. Sorry about your back!

Skip, I answered your question. Now you answer mine. That was no answer. John Smith

You can count on one hand the number of super elite athletes in their 40s. I can't think of an athlete competing at the highest level at this age without a cloud of suspicion. Certainly, no one in football or basketball and baseball has a lone example. There is a natural decline at that age and there are hundreds of examples of the greats falling off (Jordan, Barkley, Montana, Griffey Jr, Maddux, the list is endless). I'm not making any sort of accusation but this type of performance puts her in a completely unique category.

Paul Evil Smith has stated that until Dara has failed a drug test that its pointless to speculate. Paul: Check #2, #3, and your response in #4, and my response in #5 in the link below. forums.usms.org/showthread.php Fair enough...I have to admit I've changed my opinion a bit in the last year.

Anyone else notice all it takes to get the Smith boys out of hibernation is a little dope (talking)? An eye witness account of quicky physical changes is something to consider, although not proof of anything. Geek.....what really got John & my attention was a rumor that you had some insight into "legal" supplements being used by middle age men who are former triathlete bashers that are going over to the "dark side"? :rofl:

Much like Jenny (The Slacker) Thompson, all 8 of her Olympic gold’s were on relays, and only one measly silver and bronze in individual events. And Jenny’s Bronze was shared with Dara. For that matter 5 of Spitz’s 9 gold’s were for relays. Well stated Rob, well stated.

Skip, Cripes,...... you don't need to be a "player" to offer a qualified opinion on this subject. You just have to PAY ATTENTION and think with your mind not your heart. I'll be honest with you, at the expense of my reputation as the most irritating masters swimmer, I will tell you my opinion. I lean toward the article's conclusion. The evidence is indeed circumstantial, but you can not deny that the drug testing performed these days is lagging and insufficient as clearly evidenced in the sport of cycling. Sorry Skip, seems like we've seen and heard about too much drug crap the last 15 years in this sport. It is disillusioning. All 3 of my children (14,12,8) swim competitively now. I have taught them that supplements and drugs beyond mere vitamins and protein powder are flat out cheating. I am confident they will not act foolishly in their future swimming career. I can not say that about a growing percentage of young swimmers who begin with lessor items as Creatine in highschool and expand from there in college and beyond. Balco was real..... no one on talked about it on this thread until the whistle was blown. No one knew about The Clear, THG, IGF-1, HGH and other designer steroids until recent years. How do we know that there isn't another Balco out there or another THG equivalent.............. we just don't. Note........ Paul is much more dipolmatic in his approach to the subject..... but don't think he doesn't have a strong opinion. Let me ask you a tough question now, Skip........ Do you think there are any top level Masters Swimmers who take human growth hormone, testosterone or other hardcore supplements ? Bad enough to cheat at the real thing (i.e. US Nationals)...... how pathetic, insecure and desperate for attention do you think it would be for a Masters swimmer to take these drugs? ........ :-) My god I wish I started this thread. I would win the "Most Controversial Thread" of the year award hands down. John Smith