Dara Torres-Amazing

She looks pretty amazing to me. I guess we will have to agree to disagree. John Smith Fair enough. Should Dara make it as far as the Olympic Team, this thread will come back with a vengance I suspect.

She looks pretty amazing to me. I guess we will have to agree to disagree. John Smith

SCYFreestyle, Have you ever tried to put on muscle mass in the 30s and 40s? John Smith Absolutely. Not 40's, but late 20's and early 30's. I am a tall and thin man, but was able to increase muscle mass noticeably in my triceps, biceps, and quads. I used machines at the gym and followed no specific routine for exercise or diet (aside from trying to eat as much protein as possible). The muscle that I have seen in some photos of Dara does not seem all that far fetched.

SCYFreestyle, Have you ever tried to put on muscle mass in your 30s and 40s? Oh wait...... let's sit out 6-7 years without competition before 2000 and then sit out 6-7 years more without competition before 2008. That'll make it easier to get faster and stronger especially when you are getting older. Its just a photo...... that's all. John Smith

Let's see..... 1992 she was about 24 or 25. I guess women don't reach puberty until they are in their 30s. Some real damning evidence you've got there. :duel:

Let's see..... 1992 she was about 24 or 25. I guess women don't reach puberty until they are in their 30s. That's when they put on 10-15 lbs of extra muscle.

It IS hearsay until a court of law decides it is not hearsay. An eyewitness account of a crime is hearsay evidence until it is corroborated with physical evidence. AND, I only said he was implicated by hearsay evidence. We are beyond implication since Mr. Clemens has testified in the case. Huh? Whatcha saying there? An eyewitness account is direct evidence, not hearsay evidence. It may not be as reliable as circumstantial evidence, but is completely admissible. Hearsay evidence is unverified info heard or received from another that is not personally known. For example, if someone repeated an eyewitness account that they heard from the eyewitness, that would be hearsay.

It is human nature to reject anything outside the average as "not normal". But saying that the average person couldn't do it (without drugs/cheating) is not the same as saying it couldn't be done by someone on the freakish side of the range of human ability. Exactly. Swimming is still in its infantcy (sp?) WRT professionalism and the implications that it has for keeping people in the sport for longer periods. Most of the data for swimming comes from the fact that until very recently, it has been a sport for "the kids" - start early, retire early. As it becomes something more of a career option, we'll see people staying in longer and doing better, even as they age. Also, most people who swim past college or a little later have had poor access to good coaching, general support and the like. Yes, SOME post-college swimmers have the equivalent of the better college programs, but most don't. Again, as that changes, so too will times drop for older athletes. In the case of Ms. Torres, I'd like to think that she has used her ability (and $) to make this come true. True story: About 20 years ago (1988), I was coaching a women in racewalking who was just about 40 years old. One day she called me up and was very discouraged. She said that because of her age, that she'd never be able to beat her younger competitors and make the US national team. I asked her if she knew what the women's 10k walk record had been in 1968. She didn't, so I told her what it was. I then asked her what her recent best time was and it was faster than the world record had been 20 years before. I told her that if you could go back in time and tell the people in 1968 that in1988 a 40 year old would be faster than the 1968 world record, they would tell you it was impossible. I then told her that she would need to think and train 20 years ahead of her competitors. I changed her training to force her to do some things she thought impossible and she made the US national team into her 40's and then finally retired from competition once satisfied. (P.S. No PED's involved) Call me naive, but I think that Ms. Torres is thinking and training 20 years ahead of where we are now. -LBJ

It is not hearsay, for the last time! Clemens has been implicated by a person who not only saw but also administered the drugs, allegedly. If you ditrectly witnessed it or, in this case, actually did it, it is NOT HEARSAY! It IS hearsay until a court of law decides it is not hearsay. An eyewitness account of a crime is hearsay evidence until it is corroborated with physical evidence. AND, I only said he was implicated by hearsay evidence. We are beyond implication since Mr. Clemens has testified in the case.

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