question to dolphin kick after dive/turn

Ray- I see what you mean, but I think he started his pulldown at the same time. As long as he is in the process of starting the pull down he's ok. Watch the video again, but concentrate of his hands, not his kick. Dana

Just wanted to point out that that is Kitajima in the underwater shots, not Hansen.

Thank for your input, Dana. If we refer the rule from FINA… SW 7.4 … A single downward dolphin kick followed by a breaststroke kick is permitted while wholly submerged. … As per interpretation from USA swimming: www.usaswimming.org/.../Amends to FINA rules changes at 2005 Convention2.pdf It mentioned: … The downward butterfly kick is not permissible prior to the arm pull-down…. So it seems FINA do not regulate when to perform a downward butterfly kick during pull-down phase, BUT it does regulate a breaststroke kick must follows that butterfly kick. And Hansen did dive butterfly kick pull-down breaststroke kick Could please someone give me more opinions thereto?? Thank you very much.

Ok, the underwater footage is of Kitajima and the attached picture shows his hands were still together in streamline when he did his dolphin kick. It is not clear that any rule about dolphin kicking in the breaststroke is enforceable. In the video you can also see a downward kick as he enters the water. I have always thought that this entry kick was permissible but some argue otherwise. In my personal opinion FINA is not very good at writing rules. The actual rule does not explicitly say that the kick has to occur after the pullout, only that it must be followed by a breaststroke kick. If it must occur after the pullout they should have said so instead of leaving the "immediately followed" to be read in. They also don't seem to realize that their rule problems often come down to the difficulty of judging relative timing. Judges couldn't tell if backstrokers were past ninety degrees toward their *** at the exact moment they touched the wall, so they changed the rule, and instead of doing the natural "part of a continuous rotation to the ***" they came up with the near meaningless "part of a continuous turning action" leaving us with backstrokers no longer having to swim on their back for part of the race. Here it is very difficult to tell if the pull has started when the kick is done, I couldn't say for sure until I froze the video. Does the kick occur when the feet start the upward movement or when they complete the downward movement or somewhere between? That makes a big difference in interpretation. Looks like Kitajima is still "pushing the limits", as were several other breaststroke swimmers.

Ah, yes. It’s Kitajima. I then recognized them by the color of their swimsuits from blocks. On their way home, yes, Brendan did his dolphin kick during pulldown. I just want to make sure what I know about rule is correct. Thank you all.

<'s Post >> Lindsay you hit the nail on the head there... They've opened the floodgates for the breaststroke pullout and its only going to get worse.

Even though the rule doesn't specifically state when the dolphin kick should occur, the official interpretation is: "...during, or at the end of the arm pull-down of the first stroke after the start and after each turn, a single downward butterfly kick is allowed, but not required, followed by a breaststroke kick. ....... The downward butterfly kick is not permissible prior to the arm pull-down." This is from a letter Bruce Stratton, Chairman of the Rules and Regulations Committee, USA Swimming, sent out in September of 2005 after USA Swimming amnded their rules to conform with the FINA rules.