Breaststroke Turn Dilemma

scyfreestyler - I hope you know I was just teasing. I just know that I was very deep on my turn and didn't doubt for a second my DQ was justified. I swam today and tried to count on a few turns and it just felt all wrong. My turns are a bit variable depending on how tired I am so I still think going by "feel" works better.

I knew it was in jest hofffam, no worries.

Doc Counsilman's advice about the first stroke after starts and turns applies to all four competitive strokes. "Slow to swimming speed". Keep in mind that you will reach that point in the pool sooner in a sprint race than in the longer distances, which will vary according to your swimming speed at the time. Slower, later, of course.

Doc Counsilman's advice about the first stroke after starts and turns applies to all four competitive strokes. "Slow to swimming speed". Keep in mind that you will reach that point in the pool sooner in a sprint race than in the longer distances, which will vary according to your swimming speed at the time. Slower, later, of course. Now that is something that I can buy into.

Brian,that worked for Lundquist because he had a stronger push-off than anyone.It can work for you if you have a really strong push off. If the other swimmer has a better push off you'll be going too slow when you start the pullout. I think it works better to go by feel.

Wayne McCauley does not just recommend 3 seconds. It can be as short as 1second for some people in a sprint, to as long as 3.5 seconds in 200 races. Most people have discredited the Bud Termin article, including the swimmers involved in the study. For those who recommend tying the pulldown to loss of momentum, there is one rule. If you think you have lost momentum you are at least half to a full second late. Accurate counting and lots of race type pushoffs are the best way to find what works best for you. I am a believer in much of what the Lunk described in his 1985 video. Waiting to the other person to pulldown really works great. Really good breaststrokers all have good pulldowns, so letting the excited competitor pull first works great for the 100 and 200 races. But for the 50 and even 25 sprints, many great breaststrokers would like to get rid of the pulldown completely, but you can't:dedhorse: The rules in a round about way state you have to include a pulldown. Officials will tell you they will disqualify you if you don't include a pulldown. So a really short count of one to 1.5 seconds can get you into race speed faster. I look at my 50 races and if I pulldown fast, I can still get ahead of my competitors by the 15 meter mark. And like Lunk, the underwater pulldown has to be undercontrol, and setting you up for the first stroke up on the surface which should the strongest of the entire race. The first stroke up is as important as the dive and underwater pulldown. It has to be practiced to perfection. For me, I try not to breathe on the first stroke up, try to have my hands at their widest point as my head breaks the waters surface, and I try to pull forwards and not go high up. You can gain or loose a full second during that first stroke up.

Question: what rule would the officials site for not doing a pull down and going straight to the stroke on the turn?

You can gain or loose a full second during that first stroke up. If not more... I have recently tried four new things to my stroke and all related to the pulldown phase (all of them are of course common to the experienced but I thought I should share them with the rest of you anyway) #1 After the pulldown I place my hands on my thighs until recovery #2 After the pulldown I shrug my shoulders to decrease resistance (i think i go more narrow that way) #3 During recovery i try to have my hands in "karate" mode and sweep them up as close to my body as possible keeping my elbows in. Might sound extremely self evident, but up til three weeks ago it wasnt for me...might tell you more about my level of swimming than the level of this tip... #4 As Wayne said above, I try also to time so that I am as wide as possible when going up (i have failed completely sometimes, but when I succeed it is like putting on the afterburner and I feel that i can keep that extra speed a couple of meters as well) just my :2cents: /Per PS And reg wating until the other guy makes his pulldown...well that might work in a competitive field, but primarily against that other guy. You might loose ground towards the rest of the field because both of you are pulling to early or too late. I vote for...pull when optimal...and optimal you find out during endless testing i race speed DS

Answer: None, you are not required to do a full pull down at the start or turn rule 101.2.2. However you must pull before kick to start the cycle, also 101.2.2. “Throughout the race the stroke cycle must be one arm stroke and one leg kick in that order.” “After the start and after each turn, the swimmer may take one arm stroke completely back to the legs.” Correct, so just turning and starting your stroke should not get you DQ'd, which is why I asked how official would DQ a person as Wayne said. He said the rules in a round about way say you have to do the pull down.

Question: what rule would the officials site for not doing a pull down and going straight to the stroke on the turn?Answer: None, you are not required to do a full pull down at the start or turn rule 101.2.2. However you must pull before kick to start the cycle, also 101.2.2. “Throughout the race the stroke cycle must be one arm stroke and one leg kick in that order.” “After the start and after each turn, the swimmer may take one arm stroke completely back to the legs.”