Breaststroke Turn Dilemma

I am attempting to perfect my start and turns for the breaststroke. I recently reviewed three articles on the breaststroke turn which I found on the USMS web site. All had different recommendations for the turn pullout. The article by Budd Termin and David Pendergast recommended holding for 1 second after pushing off the wall before beginning the pullout. Another by Wayne McCauley recommended 3 seconds. Another by John Moffet just says "as you begin to slow down, start your pullout." I know there has to be an optimum time and it may be somewhat swimmer dependent, but the difference I see between these three authors is huge. Can anyone help me understand this dilemma. Ray I'd go with Wayne. I think 2-3 will be where you slow down. I'm working on it too. Time yourself with varying pulldowns over 15 yards Rich

It depends on the swimmer like you said, but you want to start your pull when you start to slow down which for most is about 3 seconds. So counting to 3 after you push off should be fine.

Lundquist used to just wait until the other guy pulled down to start his pull down. Gains a half a body length every time. Try it. It works. (of course all bets are off it the other guy is doing the same thing)

I agree with Dan, don't count, get a feel for when you are losing momentum so you can compensate for a good or bad push off/streamline.

2-3 sec is probably right for most swimmers. It depends on how good your push off and streamline are. Get a friend to time you to 15M and see whats best for you.

I would scratch the whole counting thing. The pullout needs to begin when you begin to lose momentum from your pushoff. Seconds are just an arbitrary number in this case, but the power of your pushoff and the quality of your streamline are going to dictate when the pullout needs to begin. 2-3 might very well be an accurate number for the majority of swimmers the majority of the time but I think you will be better served in the long run to make this decision on the fly, and not on a countdown. Not to nit-pick but thats why Allen and I said time yourself over a set distance. That way you will know your count--momentum is down to perception. Obviously you should re-check this start every now and then to see how it changes as your streamline improves etc. However some may sense their momentum bettter than others. I tend to finish the break out a little too soon...going by my video...thats why an accurate time over a set distance will help guide you in to the right time. At least that's my take on the theory and what to aim for. Let me put it this way: If Allen and Wayne say it about Breaststroke...it's pretty darn good advice. Last note, different BR races will require different breakout distance. 50 BR needs to be before you slow past your sprint speed. Longer races where you will "swim out" a little easier you can stay down longer (and thus slow a little more) if you can do it (I am still battling with this myself). ...most importantly though...yes, why are freestylers giving out advice on a man's stroke? :p

I was DQ'd recently because my 2nd pull began before my head broke the surface. Remember the rule says your head must break the surface before the insweep. It's perfectly acceptable to start the outward portion of the pull before your head breaks the surface. 101.2.2—Stroke From the beginning of the first arm stroke after the start and after each turn, the body shall be kept on the ***. It is not permitted to roll onto the back at any time. Throughout the race the stroke cycle must be one arm stroke and one leg kick in that order. All movements of the arms shall be simultaneous and in the same horizontal plane without alternating movement. The hands shall be pushed forward together from the *** on, under or over the water. The elbows shall be under water except for the final stroke before the turn, during the turn and for the final stroke at the finish. The hands shall be brought back on or under the surface of the water. The hands shall not be brought back beyond the hip line, except during the first stroke after the start and each turn. During each complete cycle, some part of the swimmer’s head shall break the surface of the water. After the start and after each turn, the swimmer may take one arm stroke completely back to the legs. The head must break the surface of the water before the hands turn inward at the widest part of the second stroke. (my emphasis)

I would scratch the whole counting thing. The pullout needs to begin when you begin to lose momentum from your pushoff. Seconds are just an arbitrary number in this case, but the power of your pushoff and the quality of your streamline are going to dictate when the pullout needs to begin. 2-3 might very well be an accurate number for the majority of swimmers the majority of the time but I think you will be better served in the long run to make this decision on the fly, and not on a countdown.

I agree with scyfreestyler (why is a freestyler giving breaststroke advice?? ;) ) Don't count. I do not see how that is a reliable method because your push off the wall may be different than theirs etc... You want to maximize your speed advantage underwater. You should begin underwater propulsion before you lose any meaningful amount of momentum. I think this will become instinctive with a bit of practice. Don't underestimate the importance of a streamlined body position including when you bring your hands up underneath your body after the pull. Be aware of your depth too. I was DQ'd recently because my 2nd pull began before my head broke the surface. I was too deep - I train in a pool 4-5 feet deep and I was racing in 8 feet. I came off the wall too deep.

I agree with scyfreestyler (why is a freestyler giving breaststroke advice?? ;) ) . Very good question! Generally there is little advice I can offer in breaststroke but what little bit of *** gets included in my workouts tells me that a count is no way to determine when a pullout should begin. A simple example would be my practice yesterday. I wound up swimming in the 4 foot section in a lane near the wall. For some reason there was a current at that end of the pool that was quite noticeable...perhaps due to the 25 MPH winds that had the backstroke flags flying about 5-6 feet from where they should have been. Anyhow, my pushoffs from one end of the pool were wonderful but from the other end it was downright horrific. If I used a 3 second count to time my pullout I would have been at a near standstill when going against the current. If I were going with the current the 3 second rule would have initiated the pullout prematurely.