OK...Here comes a thread for all of you wannabe odds-makers.
Post your thoughts for establishing handicaps for personal challenge races.
Here are a couple of mine:
1. Age credit: basic idea.....the older of the two gets a handicap. (as in chaos vs. muppet) the handicap goes to yours truly.
2. Wetsuit penalty: self explanatory....I heard 10% is a good rule of thumb for this one.
3. Personal bests (within 2 years).....swimmers are handicapped based on their best recent performances. (this could make geek vs. gull II a real nail-biter)
i didn't think any smith (good or evil) would bite on fort's height suggestion.
this seems more like a veiled "whining" post than an actual formula for handicapping, though still rather amusing.
OK, I'll bite on yours Dave. :thhbbb: ;)
This was more whining. I have read John's post before, I think. I seemed to recall there was a handicap for hangovers. Did Paul delete that or am I mis-remembering?
I'm not guilty of training +4000 per day, for sure. But some of these other handicaps would really add up. If I got a height, shoulder injury, marriage, nagging spouse, inability to breathe, advanced age, and 3 kids handicap, my 50 free would be as fast as evil or good smiths. Well, I guess they'd get some handicapping too ... since they are both seeing cardiologists. :( Maybe I'd be faster than my secret nemesis in the 50 free though ...
Rich:
Are you insane? After two days of swimming at zones, I will be dead. I will not be doing extra challenge races. I will be sitting in the hot tub. (Dave, the sauna is now over by the rec pool, BTW.) Besides, you don't have to do relays. I just got an email from our "team captain" and it appears I am slated for some. So I will be doing nothing post official races except :drink: to help build my handicap for the next race.
And what about Jeff Roddin? How does he figure into the Barra vs. Muppet fly duel? Barra and Muppet have muscle and Jeff has 0% body fat. Who has the advantage and who has the handicap?
:dedhorse:
David...nothing "veiled" what so ever with John.....I mean Charlie Brown....its another sunny day in Colorado with a black cloud is following him around...:help:
For the age component of this, we had a huge discussion of this a number of years back, which resulted in one swimmer--maybe the great Phil Arcuni--putting the following on the Internet.
http://n3times.com/swimtimes/
Check it out--it has come in handy for me many, many times. When I was 50, one of my nemeses was 41. On the rare occasions I beat him, I would plug our respective times in here and publicly luxuriate in how much more soundly I would have beaten him had we been the same age.
And when he beat me, well, thanks to the Finnish formula, he NEVER truly beat me, because the age adjustment fudge factor invariably gave me the edge!
You never want to pick nemeses that are too good. But with the Finish formula and age on your side, you might just find yourself increasing the talent pool of nemeses that are much younger and better than you, but not nearly good enough to vanquish the age-adjusted you!
One problem with this though....
Having children between the age of 12 and 18 should warrant a deduction,
perhaps a sliding scale that is based on age. When thay get in HS and start driving, the stress factor is major.
I think John has pretty much nailed this on an earlier thread:
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September 7th, 2005, 10:01 AM #1
TheGoodSmith
Very Active Member
John C. Smith
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Aurora, CO
Posts: 475 Handicap rules for USMS
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I propose USMS adopt handicap measurements to more equitably compare performances in Masters Swimming.
1. Married ...... deduct one tenth per 50
2. Nagging spouse.... deduct two tenths per 50
3. Each child under the age of 10..... deduct one tenth per 50
4. Work more than 40 hours a week..... deduct one tenth per 50
5. House and car payment stress.... deduct on tenth per vehicle two tenths per house.
6. Travel more than 1 day a week.... one tenth per 50
Note: item 6 can help negate item 2.
In addition.... those of us with more manageable lifestyles need to adjust their times as well.
7. Training more than 4,000 a workout ...... add one tenth per 50
8. Training more than 4 days a week....... add one tenth per 50
9. Born independently wealthy..... add 3 tenths per 50
John Smith
That is of course, because M55-59 is the creme de la creme of masters swimming an incomparable group who will continue to age up gracefully and refuse to be handicapped.
This is an interesting idea.
Seems like there should be handicaps for # practices per week, # years of masters competition, physical/health problems. I guess, perhaps, some female posters might possibly want a kid/# kids handicap. (If you don't, please ignore this; I've just heard someone say it.)
How do you propose to quantify the handicaps for these factors? Is there a Math Geek who can do the numbers?
I'd like to hear about the handicapping for the Muppet vs. Barra challenge. Is the challenge in the 100 or 200 fly or a distance free event?
Back to my non-math job.
This is an interesting idea.
Seems like there should be handicaps for # practices per week, # years of masters competition, physical/health problems. I guess, perhaps, some female posters might possibly want a kid/# kids handicap. (If you don't, please ignore this; I've just heard someone say it.)
How do you propose to quantify the handicaps for these factors? Is there a Math Geek who can do the numbers?
I'd like to hear about the handicapping for the Muppet vs. Barra challenge. Is the challenge in the 100 or 200 fly or a distance free event?
.
All possible considerations....obviously, I'm not looking for a single formula to cover all situations, (nor am I suggesting any such factors be included in any kind of alternative records or top ten list), but it would be fun to have a way to encourage swimmers of different speeds, experience, gender, age, etc to embark in friendly competitions.
As for the Barra/Strahota match up, I'm open to any suggestions. (I don't know that we can match the dramatic results of G vs.G swim weekend, but who knows?)
I like your idea David...and extending a bit on Crusader's posting....I think there should also be a handicap for weight....Like I get an 0.1 second per 100 handicap for every 10 pounds that I outweigh my male opponents (it would be different for female opponents but I haven't worked that out yet)....So I figure I would get at least a half second advantage per 100 against most of my fellow posters here...LOL! :joker:
Newmastersswimmer
