muscular endurance

Okoban, I enjoyed the video clip and saved the link. Thanks.

Morgan and Colin: I am not a swim coach and typically only swim the 50 free at meets, so I'm not the best to answer this question. Maybe Ande, George,Terry or Paul will come back to this thread and explain it more precisely. George describes the "I" pull on the "freestyle stroke question" thread, I seem to recall. That thread is chock full of all sorts of stuff. So take a look at that. Since I mentioned the I vs. S pull, here's my very limited :2cents: on the I stroke. My hand enters sort of like a "mail slot" pretty much directly in front of my shoulder. It drifts out a tad and then I pull in a bit (but not past the center line so you don't cross over) and then pretty much pull straight down trying for an EVF. (If you let your hand drift too far to the side on the entry and catch and ride the glide too long, you might have too much of a "weighted" catch, which could cause shoulder issues.) You either finish past the hips or early exit depending on whether you're sprinting or doing mid-to-distance free. When beginning to exit, your hand goes slightly to the right at the bottom of the I and then you recover. The problem with the "S," I believe, is that it is inefficient and less powerful to have your hand sculling back and forth on the pull. I must emphasize that I'm a sprinter like Warren, so others may do it differently. (I am short and generally have a high SR and rather straight arm recovery when sprinting. I swim it differently when doing longer sets.) Freestyle technique seems to vary widely, and is definitely a different strokes for different folks sort of thing. Some have a straight arm recovery, others have a high elbow. (Dave Denniston says this is OK, Jonty Skinner says no. There are other threads on this particular issue, I think.) Some (or most) do front quadrant swimming and use an early exit. Wouldn't do this for a sprint. Most people enter fingers first, but I know people that do a thumb entry without shoulder issues. (I think even Klete Keller does this.) Not one size fits all. I'm sure someone else can describe this more eloquently than me. OK, I looked. Here is what George said about the "I" stroke on the other thread: "I put my hand in on the centerline as I extend the arm, the hand drifts out slightly and down, about 8" off center then the forearm rotates to get the little finger almost directly below the thumb and press back to the center. When I reach the catch I max it, I keep the hand on the center of the line making sure the hand and fore arm precedes (do not let the elbow precede the forearm) the elbow but the elbow is locked, the hand comes close to the body, until I get to the crotch there it extends naturally as the elbow lifts and the hand rolls out."

Looking back at the first page, George mentioned that he disagreed with points 1-3. But I get the impression that George is a naturally talented swimmer. As a less talented swimmer, when I'm swimming better, points 1-3 are part of the difference. For instance, points 1 and 2 have to do with the nature of water: it flows under pressure. For a newer swimmer, if they think about pushing water backwards (often pushing too hard), then there will be wasted energy going into turbulence. By concentrating more on applying just the right amount of pressure ("gripping" the water), more of your effort will go into forward motion. This is localized muscle fatigue. Indicates you're swimming "with your arms and legs" rather than "with your body." For most of this season, a specific muscle group in my arms (or legs) would be the limitation in practice, so my heart rate didn't get high either. A week ago, my coach mentioned that my arm was crossing over during my pull. This made me realize that I was pulling with my hand too deep. When I started to make my pull more like a lat pull-down (and kept my elbows a lot closer to the surface of the water), that allowed more of my effort to be transferred to muscle groups that can take it. At the end of practice, I was tired from the fingers all the way to my back, and I could feel it in my abs too. That also made me think about the "S-pull". Between the "lat pull-down" sort of motion and body roll, I naturally did a S-pull. When I *thought* about doing an S-pull, I was less efficient. I got caught up with where my hand was in the water, and would let my elbow drop, didn't use my back muscles, etc. When people are talking about the arm postion during the pull, they are not mentioning if their comments are from the viewpoint of the coach (stationary on deck), or compared to your body (which is rolling side-to-side during the pull).

Fair enough George...... Interesting idea that (all things being equal) you feel distance swimmers have less slippage....I need to think about that a bit.....my first impression would be that because of the increased turnover that may seem to be the case....however.....it would also sem to be that the amount of power being generated is also far greater for the sprinter...which means faster times/less slippage.....so...I'm not sure about that?

The basic laws of hydrodynamics tell us that as you apply more force (as sprinters do) the water will give way faster, i.e. more slippage will occur. If there were a way for sprinters to swim more efficiently/with less slippage than distance swimmers the distance swimmers would adopt the same changes as efficiency is "more important" in distance swimming - because sprinters can trade some efficiency for more speed over a shorter distance.

Not only is slippage possible it happens even in the very best swimmers. It happens no matter how fast you swim or slow you swim but a swimmer using proper tech has less slippage. I have watched several videos of you Terry and have found very little slippage in your slow tempo swims but I have watched some of you swimming faster and did detect slippage. So to say we have to set and wait to feel the water really does not hold water. We have to get there as fast as we can get set and go. I think you will find that us big guys look like it is leisurely but it is not. It is easy to say "The best 100m sprinters generally have more "leisurely" catches than less successful sprinters" but do they generally have leisurely catches??? I have seen very few sprint swimmers who have leisurely catches. Turbulence and slippage is possible at all speeds. I've seen literally thousands of triathletes swimming 35 and 45 minute miles, with a significant source of their ineffectiveness being that they spend a vast amount of energy creating turbulence. The best 100m sprinters generally have more "leisurely" catches than less successful sprinters. Those with a rushed catch gain less traction and have to turn over more to compensate. Those who take a millisecond extra to trap water and rotate the upper arm into the most advantageous position hold water better and are better connected to core power. The effect of the mechanical advantage they gain is the ability to use a lower stroke rate, the result of which is being able to maintain maximum speed for longer before the almost inevitable deceleration sets in. Voila - more muscular endurance.

George.....sorry to disagree.....but I really think that thru a lot of technique work you can and should dial in your catch to be successful in a 50/100....so the "thinking" part is done during practice until it becomes something that you are not thinking about during the race....its "natural". Three years ago I had a chance to focus on the 50 for the first time in years, John had coerced Rowdy into going to nationals with us in an attempt to have a 35+ relay beat the national high school record (yes....he thinks of these things). Training with John & Rowdy I noticed that I had indeed gotten sloppy on my entry/catch.....and put 3 months into changing it.....and it worked....20.95 flat start and 20.5 relay split.....vs. 21.5 range the prior few years. As for swimming longer distances....I also disagree...if you are creating turbulence and slipping when it can be reduced by technique corrections its going to have an even more pronounced effect on time improvement.

I have looked for that mail slot, it is not there. The best thing you have done is having your coach tell you about the cross over. The body sets up a bow wave get your hands into it and take advantage of the water you are pushing forward. Make your hand follow the black line on the bottom of the pool, don't drop your elbow from the catch phase to the finish. Use your hand, forearm, elbow and your large back muscles will come into play, it is using the fulcrum effect (levers). The kick is your balancer. Sorry for being so late but computer is acting crazy here in Melaque Mexico.

If you are swimming a 50 or a 100 don't take too much time setting up to get into the catch phase or you will be left in the dust, or the wash. When I watch the great sprinters I do notice little bubbles and turbulance during the catch phase. But if you are swimming a mile in 23 plus you do not have to worry about turbulance during the catch phase. The "I" stroke would have never come about if there was not what Councillman described as the "S" stroke a very slight change in how we pull.

All I am saying is I have watched thousands of videos and you know I don't like slippage. But we do have to put some real effort to be fast and we cannot take forever to hook it into the groove. It is all technique but do not waste your time in getting to the catch get there then use it. There is slippage but slippage should be limited as much as possible. Just to add if there is no slippage at all you will not swim fast. Distance swimmers have less slippage then sprinters.