Anyone else watch The Biggest Loser?

Exactly. That's the real question, isn't it? Absolutely. The theory is that raising HDL is good for you then again the theory that lowering LDL is good for you seems to be OK. We have to try it out. Maybe olive oil imparts some other beneficial effect. The bottom line is just try to live a life of moderation and you won't get in too much trouble. Leo BTW Vioxx had indications of significant increase in blood pressure from the initial clincal trials. Outcome was predicatable.

I have developed an ability to determine, with a relatively high degree of accuracy, which foods contain trans fats and which do not. But this is only after I have been reading labels and seeing a trend as to which types of foods are most likely to contain these fats. Matt: Since I'm only takng multi-vitamins, can you share your knowledge and list some of these food types?

When you follow the first sentence by the second, the implication is that you are connecting these two thoughts (especially when you only have a two sentence response.) Your two sentences standing alone are true statements. Trying to draw a connection between the two at this point is not. I thought my post was fairly straightforward, but then again I do not have any financial ties with Pfizer (and neither did the trial's Data and Safety Monitoring Committee, for obvious reasons). Rest assured that other pharmaceutical companies will be reassessing their own CETP inhibitors currently in the pipeline. Vioxx seemed like a good idea at one time, also. We are way off topic here. The take home message was (and is) to exerxcise caution when taking supplements.

Matt: Since I'm only takng multi-vitamins, can you share your knowledge and list some of these food types? I am not sure how multi-vitamins tie into this but some of the foods that are typical of being laden with TF's are frozen pizza's, ready to bake cinnamon rolls/breakfast rolls/etc, ready bake cookies.... In general, anything that is quick to prepare is a prime suspect for TF's. It is so easy to check a label for these things that it's hard to imagine needing a law to protect people from them.

Perhaps the way in which the HDL was raised is the problem. Things like olive oil, fresh fish, nuts, and exercise are most likely a better way to boost the HDL number than with meds.

Perhaps the way in which the HDL was raised is the problem. Things like olive oil, fresh fish, nuts, and exercise are most likely a better way to boost the HDL number than with meds. Exactly. That's the real question, isn't it?

Gull, Unless you work in a different department of Pfizer than I do, we don't know what the cause of the excess deaths was. (If you do work in Clinical Development, then you shouldn't be posting this information here;) ). The trial was stopped because there were more deaths in the torceptrapib arm than there were in the control arm. The over site committee only sees that data and does not attempt to find a cause and effect relationship. While it is really far fetched, it could be simply that there were 30 participants all in the same bus that ran off the road. It will take several months before we know. The point to be learned here though is that pharmaceutical companies are, in fact, companies that spend huge amounts of money to test scientific theories. Pfizer spent in excess of $800 million on the clinical trials alone to test whether raising HDL makes you healthier. Science has shown that those who have higher HDL are healthier but we don't know if externally forcing it higher does the same. In this specific case, it has been reported that torceptrapib did raise blood pressure in some patients. Others have reported that their CETP inhibitors are not raising BP so it does not appear to be a class effect. So right now, we have to wait for the analysis of each of the deaths to determine what the cause of the excess deaths was. Leo

Pfizer recently halted a study of a drug which raises HDL due to an excess number of deaths. It's now thought that HDL may be more complex than previously believed.

Gull, Unless you work in a different department of Pfizer than I do, we don't know what the cause of the excess deaths was. (If you do work in Clinical Development, then you shouldn't be posting this information here;) ). The trial was stopped because there were more deaths in the torceptrapib arm than there were in the control arm. The over site committee only sees that data and does not attempt to find a cause and effect relationship. While it is really far fetched, it could be simply that there were 30 participants all in the same bus that ran off the road. It will take several months before we know. The point to be learned here though is that pharmaceutical companies are, in fact, companies that spend huge amounts of money to test scientific theories. Pfizer spent in excess of $800 million on the clinical trials alone to test whether raising HDL makes you healthier. Science has shown that those who have higher HDL are healthier but we don't know if externally forcing it higher does the same. In this specific case, it has been reported that torceptrapib did raise blood pressure in some patients. Others have reported that their CETP inhibitors are not raising BP so it does not appear to be a class effect. So right now, we have to wait for the analysis of each of the deaths to determine what the cause of the excess deaths was. I don't work for Pfizer. And I didn't say that the cause of death was known. But there was an excess number of deaths, and the trial was halted. In general, the Data and Safety Monitoring Committee will not act precipitously to halt a large multicenter trial. My point was not to find fault with Pfizer. My point was that medicine is not always intuitive. Low HDL is bad, high HDL is good, so raising a low HDL should be beneficial, correct? Perhaps it's the wrong drug (or the wrong class of drug). Or perhaps, as some have postulated in the cardiology literature, HDL is more complex than we thought.

Gull and Leo, I just had to drop a quick thought here on Vioxx since I had to take this drug for a time and it was wonderful. But, my doctor would only keep me on it for about one week a month & inbetween he used others. The warning was on my RX bottle and it was "limited" to only so many pills. Most of the people who had serious problems with it never stopped taking it, they were taking it daily and some for years. I had to draw from this that they were taking entirely too much of it and some paid a big price. I wonder why in the beginning the restrictions were on it, and then either removed or some people/doctors just ignored it. :confused: Donna