scy vs lcm

Former Member
Former Member
other than turns, what makes someone better at one or the other?
Parents
  • Resting on turns may make you feel better, but it doesn't necessarily enhance your overall performance. Re: more swimming between turns... That is my point. The advantage in short course goes to the faster under water swimmer, while the advantage in long course goes to the faster "stroke swimmer". It is simple mathematics, in my opinion. Hypothetically, if 2 swimmers are equal in terms of their ability "above the water", then the person who can swim faster under water will win. Furthermore, that advantage is increased if you can swim longer under water which you are allowed to do in a short course event. The contrary is true as well. I am sure that Michael had other goals that he wished to pursue (just threw that out there for people to chew on), but IM is one of his signature events and he had a lot more to lose if he lost that event vs. events that hold lower expectations for him. I would have been interested to see the head to head in short course, though, especially after seeing how great the long course duel was. Nevertheless, your point about Michael taking on challenges is 100% on the money. Brad: Last year, Michael Phelps chose to swim in the American SCY Championships as his peak meet and then go into his mesocycle for Nationals and Pan Pacific Championships. Because he is an assistant coach of the Univ. of Michigan team, he attends the NCAA Championship and does very little swimming leading up to that week. Because Short Course World Championships in Shanghai were right after NCAA's this was not feasible for him to swim. Plus he was starting his mesocycle for the other events. On the other hand, Ryan Lochte swam and was peaked for NCAA's and Shanghai Worlds because they were only a week after. Plus I have to disagree with your assessement that Ryan is a better in Short Course IM than Michael. Last year Michael Phelps broke both American Records in the 200 and 400 IM at the Austin meet. He broke the 11 year old record in the 400 IM by Tom Dolan of 3:38.18 with a 3:36.26 and that is still the American Record. Ryan Lochte did a 3:38.15 at the NCAA Championship meet to break Dolan's record but not Phelp's. However, Ryan did break the month old Phelps's 200 IM record of 1:41.30 with a time of 1:40.55. To me this sounds like a wash and neither swimmers having an advantage in the Short Course format. Plus as I watched both races this summer (Nationals & Pan Pacifics) I did not get the impression that either swimmer had that much better turns then the other in the Long Course races. I do agree with your assessment about the swimming between the walls. They always say that world-class swimmers prefer Long Course swimming, which they consider a better test of swimming ability compared with Short Course racing, which they view as more like a gymnastic events because of the somersaults consisting mainly of turning and a great deal of underwater kicking. Because the Olympics and World Championships has a history and tradition of being Long Course, they prefer these prestigious events to other Short Course events. Plus until about 15 years ago, there really was not an international comparision because the USA swam Short Course Yards and the rest of the world swam Short Course Meters. That being said I will add to the comments of why I think Long Course is more challenging than Short Course. 1. I believe you must be in better condition for Long Course swimming. There are no walls to rest on and you must swim more thus resulting in fatigue. The futher you swim in Long Course, the less energy you have for turns making that a disadvantage for the Short Course swimmer. 2. I believe your stroke technique has to be better and hold up in the races. Leg conditioning is just as important as for short course turns because if your legs die and stop working for your kick, you will be swimming one dimensional and this will make your body feel more verticle instead of horizontal causing stroke flaws and fatigue. 3. Some swimmers are very powerful swimmers and they can use there strength better in Short Course than in Long Course because they can have more energy to attack the walls because of less fatigue and will not have to have the better swim technique for surface swimming because they do much less of it. 4. The swimmer that has the better technique above the water and has better endurance usually is the better Long Course swimmer. This assumes that the swimmer does not generate as much power as other swimmers in turns and in underwater breakouts and swims faster than the power swimmer on the surface.
Reply
  • Resting on turns may make you feel better, but it doesn't necessarily enhance your overall performance. Re: more swimming between turns... That is my point. The advantage in short course goes to the faster under water swimmer, while the advantage in long course goes to the faster "stroke swimmer". It is simple mathematics, in my opinion. Hypothetically, if 2 swimmers are equal in terms of their ability "above the water", then the person who can swim faster under water will win. Furthermore, that advantage is increased if you can swim longer under water which you are allowed to do in a short course event. The contrary is true as well. I am sure that Michael had other goals that he wished to pursue (just threw that out there for people to chew on), but IM is one of his signature events and he had a lot more to lose if he lost that event vs. events that hold lower expectations for him. I would have been interested to see the head to head in short course, though, especially after seeing how great the long course duel was. Nevertheless, your point about Michael taking on challenges is 100% on the money. Brad: Last year, Michael Phelps chose to swim in the American SCY Championships as his peak meet and then go into his mesocycle for Nationals and Pan Pacific Championships. Because he is an assistant coach of the Univ. of Michigan team, he attends the NCAA Championship and does very little swimming leading up to that week. Because Short Course World Championships in Shanghai were right after NCAA's this was not feasible for him to swim. Plus he was starting his mesocycle for the other events. On the other hand, Ryan Lochte swam and was peaked for NCAA's and Shanghai Worlds because they were only a week after. Plus I have to disagree with your assessement that Ryan is a better in Short Course IM than Michael. Last year Michael Phelps broke both American Records in the 200 and 400 IM at the Austin meet. He broke the 11 year old record in the 400 IM by Tom Dolan of 3:38.18 with a 3:36.26 and that is still the American Record. Ryan Lochte did a 3:38.15 at the NCAA Championship meet to break Dolan's record but not Phelp's. However, Ryan did break the month old Phelps's 200 IM record of 1:41.30 with a time of 1:40.55. To me this sounds like a wash and neither swimmers having an advantage in the Short Course format. Plus as I watched both races this summer (Nationals & Pan Pacifics) I did not get the impression that either swimmer had that much better turns then the other in the Long Course races. I do agree with your assessment about the swimming between the walls. They always say that world-class swimmers prefer Long Course swimming, which they consider a better test of swimming ability compared with Short Course racing, which they view as more like a gymnastic events because of the somersaults consisting mainly of turning and a great deal of underwater kicking. Because the Olympics and World Championships has a history and tradition of being Long Course, they prefer these prestigious events to other Short Course events. Plus until about 15 years ago, there really was not an international comparision because the USA swam Short Course Yards and the rest of the world swam Short Course Meters. That being said I will add to the comments of why I think Long Course is more challenging than Short Course. 1. I believe you must be in better condition for Long Course swimming. There are no walls to rest on and you must swim more thus resulting in fatigue. The futher you swim in Long Course, the less energy you have for turns making that a disadvantage for the Short Course swimmer. 2. I believe your stroke technique has to be better and hold up in the races. Leg conditioning is just as important as for short course turns because if your legs die and stop working for your kick, you will be swimming one dimensional and this will make your body feel more verticle instead of horizontal causing stroke flaws and fatigue. 3. Some swimmers are very powerful swimmers and they can use there strength better in Short Course than in Long Course because they can have more energy to attack the walls because of less fatigue and will not have to have the better swim technique for surface swimming because they do much less of it. 4. The swimmer that has the better technique above the water and has better endurance usually is the better Long Course swimmer. This assumes that the swimmer does not generate as much power as other swimmers in turns and in underwater breakouts and swims faster than the power swimmer on the surface.
Children
No Data