An examination of the two best IMers in the world might yield one possible answer: under water proficiency.
My guess is that, with both at peak performance, Ryan Lochte (arguably the best under water swimmer in the world) would beat Michael Phelps in a Short Course Yard 200 IM (is that why Michael skipped short course championships?), while Michael has an edge in the 200 LCM.
There are more opportunities to swim under water in a SCY event than in a LCM event thus creating an advantage for the better under water swimmer.
In a 200 yard race (short course), a swimmer can legally swim almost 66 % (131 yards) of the race under water, while a swimmer can only legally swim 30% (60 meters) of a 200 meter long course meter race under water.
In addition, many experts have pointed out that swimming under water is a shorter person's advantage while swimming, in general, favors the taller person.
In addition, many experts have pointed out that swimming under water is a shorter person's advantage while swimming, in general, favors the taller person.
I don't understand this. A tall swimmer should be at an advantage underwater, too.
I always feel out of shape when I start swimming LCM, I think Kristina is right on you can really rest on turns and in LCM there's a lot more swimming between turns ...
I've also heard LCM is for swimmers and SCY is for turners, but let's be honest the best of the best still have darn good turns. Phelps never swam college so I'm wondering if that would have helped his turns, his focus has always been LCM.
I also don't think he didn't do SCM world champs because he was afraid of Lochte, Phelps has never backed off of racing the best in the world, he isn't afraid to come up short. Hence the 200 free in Athens, and the 400 in Montreal.
I don't understand this. A tall swimmer should be at an advantage underwater, too.
I would have thought so also. But, on several occassions I have read that the shorter swimmer is at an advantage. Wish I could cite some sources. If I find any I will post. I am sure there are diminishing returns in either direction along the height scale.
Regardless, the point is that a major reason for performance variance between long course and short course is under water proficiency. Who is predisposed to this is probably mostly an individual thing any way.
I think Kristina is right on you can really rest on turns and in LCM there's a lot more swimming between turns ...
Resting on turns may make you feel better, but it doesn't necessarily enhance your overall performance.
Re: more swimming between turns... That is my point. The advantage in short course goes to the faster under water swimmer, while the advantage in long course goes to the faster "stroke swimmer".
It is simple mathematics, in my opinion. Hypothetically, if 2 swimmers are equal in terms of their ability "above the water", then the person who can swim faster under water will win. Furthermore, that advantage is increased if you can swim longer under water which you are allowed to do in a short course event. The contrary is true as well.
I am sure that Michael had other goals that he wished to pursue (just threw that out there for people to chew on), but IM is one of his signature events and he had a lot more to lose if he lost that event vs. events that hold lower expectations for him. I would have been interested to see the head to head in short course, though, especially after seeing how great the long course duel was. Nevertheless, your point about Michael taking on challenges is 100% on the money.
I don't understand this. A tall swimmer should be at an advantage underwater, too.
Here is a post from another thread that addresses this topic:
Two reasons
1) You may have noticed how submarines are shaped - not especially long, nor sleek. Not very hydrodynamic on the surface but highly so when submerged
2) The underwater dolphin works best at high cycle rates. Tall swimmers with longer body sections to articulate can find it more difficult to match the rates achieved by shorter swimmers - think Misty Hyman vs some of the willowy 6-footers you see so often at Nationals in the LA strokes.
I actually prefer LCM even though I'm a short sprinter. I'm not a great turner. But I do like the underwater part of SCY or SCM, and that saves me. I find I get into more of a rhythm long course.
Here is a post from another thread that addresses this topic:
Two reasons
1) You may have noticed how submarines are shaped - not especially long, nor sleek. Not very hydrodynamic on the surface but highly so when submerged
2) The underwater dolphin works best at high cycle rates. Tall swimmers with longer body sections to articulate can find it more difficult to match the rates achieved by shorter swimmers - think Misty Hyman vs some of the willowy 6-footers you see so often at Nationals in the LA strokes.
I'll buy 2, but not 1 on this issue.
Resting on turns may make you feel better, but it doesn't necessarily enhance your overall performance.
Re: more swimming between turns... That is my point. The advantage in short course goes to the faster under water swimmer, while the advantage in long course goes to the faster "stroke swimmer".
It is simple mathematics, in my opinion. Hypothetically, if 2 swimmers are equal in terms of their ability "above the water", then the person who can swim faster under water will win. Furthermore, that advantage is increased if you can swim longer under water which you are allowed to do in a short course event. The contrary is true as well.
I am sure that Michael had other goals that he wished to pursue (just threw that out there for people to chew on), but IM is one of his signature events and he had a lot more to lose if he lost that event vs. events that hold lower expectations for him. I would have been interested to see the head to head in short course, though, especially after seeing how great the long course duel was. Nevertheless, your point about Michael taking on challenges is 100% on the money.
Brad:
Last year, Michael Phelps chose to swim in the American SCY Championships as his peak meet and then go into his mesocycle for Nationals and Pan Pacific Championships. Because he is an assistant coach of the Univ. of Michigan team, he attends the NCAA Championship and does very little swimming leading up to that week. Because Short Course World Championships in Shanghai were right after NCAA's this was not feasible for him to swim. Plus he was starting his mesocycle for the other events. On the other hand, Ryan Lochte swam and was peaked for NCAA's and Shanghai Worlds because they were only a week after.
Plus I have to disagree with your assessement that Ryan is a better in Short Course IM than Michael. Last year Michael Phelps broke both American Records in the 200 and 400 IM at the Austin meet. He broke the 11 year old record in the 400 IM by Tom Dolan of 3:38.18 with a 3:36.26 and that is still the American Record. Ryan Lochte did a 3:38.15 at the NCAA Championship meet to break Dolan's record but not Phelp's. However, Ryan did break the month old Phelps's 200 IM record of 1:41.30 with a time of 1:40.55. To me this sounds like a wash and neither swimmers having an advantage in the Short Course format. Plus as I watched both races this summer (Nationals & Pan Pacifics) I did not get the impression that either swimmer had that much better turns then the other in the Long Course races.
I do agree with your assessment about the swimming between the walls. They always say that world-class swimmers prefer Long Course swimming, which they consider a better test of swimming ability compared with Short Course racing, which they view as more like a gymnastic events because of the somersaults consisting mainly of turning and a great deal of underwater kicking. Because the Olympics and World Championships has a history and tradition of being Long Course, they prefer these prestigious events to other Short Course events. Plus until about 15 years ago, there really was not an international comparision because the USA swam Short Course Yards and the rest of the world swam Short Course Meters. That being said I will add to the comments of why I think Long Course is more challenging than Short Course.
1. I believe you must be in better condition for Long Course swimming. There are no walls to rest on and you must swim more thus resulting in fatigue. The futher you swim in Long Course, the less energy you have for turns making that a disadvantage for the Short Course swimmer.
2. I believe your stroke technique has to be better and hold up in the races. Leg conditioning is just as important as for short course turns because if your legs die and stop working for your kick, you will be swimming one dimensional and this will make your body feel more verticle instead of horizontal causing stroke flaws and fatigue.
3. Some swimmers are very powerful swimmers and they can use there strength better in Short Course than in Long Course because they can have more energy to attack the walls because of less fatigue and will not have to have the better swim technique for surface swimming because they do much less of it.
4. The swimmer that has the better technique above the water and has better endurance usually is the better Long Course swimmer. This assumes that the swimmer does not generate as much power as other swimmers in turns and in underwater breakouts and swims faster than the power swimmer on the surface.
Former Member
Warren,
I'll bet you will get lots of advice/experiences on this one. For me, my backstroke swims felt better in short course and my times were faster. But in long course, my freestyle fared much better than short course. I'll think about it and see if I can figure it out. But when these swims were taking place, I couldn't figure it out then, either. Maybe it had something to do with the turns taking more energy from me in long course freestyle, and the turns in backstroke short course aided me.
Maybe I was on my way to truly being a distance freestyle swimmer and just didn't realize it back then, so this may be why the long course felt better in freestyle. That my new calling was trying to surface itself.
Hmmmmmm...
Donna
