"What do YOU need to do to have a major swimming breakthrough?"

you asked How often should I sprint in practice? how many times a week, assuming 4 to 5 workouts it won't hurt you to sprint each day but 3 will work too can I use the fins sometimes to reinforce the proper rhythm? if you want does anybody know of a realistic way to self-time 25 yard sprints? the best way is ask someone to time you next is to eye the pace clock, hopefully it's digital & you can see it you don't need to time everything you just need to go as fast as you can when it's time to go fast it also depends what your times are & what your improvement potential is at first you might be able to improve by several seconds but eventually you get to where tenths matter. I'm not sure where you are now with this process Good luck Ande I have not posted in a good while, but have gotten consistently valuable advice from Ande and others, often indirectly. I love this forum. Beginning several years ago I began trying to rebuild my freestyle stroke. My form was generally okay, but my timing was poor–no “front quadrant”–more like opposing arms on a windmill. I worked with a coach, and I changed the stroke to a significant degree but it hasn’t really changed my speed. Meanwhile I have been working on other strokes and making progress there. The same coach worked with me on my backstroke, which was (is) horrendous. I swim IM to keep from getting bored, both in practice and in occasional competition. So here’s the thing: one day, while trying to get my backstroke to work I was using fins to keep me moving a little more efficiently while I worked out what my hips, shoulders and arms should be doing. Somehow, the extra propulsion from the fins made it possible to time the stroke better, and–boink!–suddenly I got it. The relationship between the action of my arms seemed related in a new way. I immediately turned over and tried it on my front. Same thing: suddenly, I was “climbing the rope.” I felt like a completely different swimmer, like I was literally crawling over the water. It was crazy. An epiphany. Since that time I have been able to recreate that feeling without fins for relatively short distances. My timing is way better when I don’t breathe, so once I get to breathing every stroke I lose the feeling, I think because I pull the trigger on my right arm too quickly when I breathe to my left. Anyway, I do feel different on sprints, and I am trying to figure out an approach for dropping time in my 50 free. When I have swum it in meets I have tended to feel like I’m fighting the water. So I know I have to do more sprinting in practice. I swim with folks who are mostly fitness swimmers. It’s a bit awkward to do sprints. But I can figure that out. Here is my basic question (sorry it’s taken this long to get to it!) How often should I sprint in practice? I know that I need to improve my 25 first. Specifically, how many times a week, assuming 4 to 5 workouts per, approximately 2500 to 3000 yards? Secondarily, can I use the fins sometimes to reinforce the proper rhythm? I mean this less as a sprinting question than a drilling one. Finally, does anybody know of a realistic way to self-time 25 yard sprints? Thanks in advance!

congratulations ElainiaK, I am so proud of you, you made your 50 time and I'm confident you will get your 100 & 200 times as well 1) are you weight training or working on strength? 2) continue with your technique work 3) continue with your conditioning 4) I was completely unaware of your "thoracic outlet syndrome problems" I believe you would swim much faster in a fabric tech suit knee skin like a speedo pro or something similar my suggestion for you would be to only put the straps up over your shoulder when you race, don't even have them up when you warm up and warm down just throw another suit over your tech suit 2010 Approved Womens Tech Suits 2010 Approved Mens Tech Suits I'm not a doc and don't know if that's workable but it might & you would swim much faster in a kneeskin. Very proud of you and keep going for more. Ande Ande, I responded to this post, but now I have a question pertaining to #3. Background: As I mentioned in my previous reply to this, I have been swimming 5-6 days per week, 1-1/2 hours each time, since joining USMS, in February. (Before that, I was swimming 4 times per week for fitness and doing dryland 3 times per week.) I have mostly followed the recommendations in the book, "Mastering Swimming" for my swim workouts. And, I mix in sets my part-time coach specifically recommended for breaststroke. My times have improved quite a bit, so I am happy with my progress so far. I have also been able to get my resting heart rate down from 68 to 58. When I do my dryland workouts, I have to work very hard to get my heart rate up to the maximum for my age (48). Walking at 4.8 mph on the treadmill won't do it and I look like a crazy woman trying to get my heart rate up on the eliptical or recumbent bike! So, I have no problems there; especially since the gym is kept at 68 degrees. So, finally, my question: Is it the 84 degree water temperature that makes it so difficult to keep my heart rate down in the 16-20 beats (per 10 seconds) range I am supposed to stay in for my endurance and recovery swim days? Sometimes, I feel like if I swim any slower I am going to sink! But, keeping my heart rate down is difficult. And, I'm trying to follow the conditioning recommendations detailed in "Mastering Swimming". I asked my doctor about the risks to my heart going above the maximum heart rate recommended for my age, when I'm swimming sprints, and he said not to be concerned. My blood pressure and EKG are excellent, as is the rest of my health and fitness level, so he is not worried about it. But, I do want to be in the best swimming and racing condition possible, so I would like to know if you or anybody else out there has some knowledge or experience in this area. Assuming it's the high water temperature causing my increased heart rate, even when I swim slow, do you have any advice? Are there any training ideas you have? As I have mentioned in other threads, swimming at another pool is not a realistic (or affordable) option for me. So, I have to make the best of the 84 degree water at our community pool. Thanks, Ande, and anybody else who may be able to help!

Is it the 84 degree water temperature that makes it so difficult to keep my heart rate down in the 16-20 beats (per 10 seconds) range I am supposed to stay in for my endurance and recovery swim days? Sometimes, I feel like if I swim any slower I am going to sink! But, keeping my heart rate down is difficult. I don't think it's the water, I think it's the fact that 16-20 beats per second (i.e., 96-120) is probably too low for you. I think as long as you're under 25 you are probably staying in the aerobic zone where you want to be for your endurance and recovery swims. I know your max heart rate is supposed to decrease with age, but if you're like me you're not seeing this decrease. I can still get mine up to 200 easily. Maybe a better measure of whether you are swimming aerobically is whether you can maintain this pace indefinitely. Try doing a long swim of a set time, like a T20 (a 20 minute swim for distance). Let's say you swim 1500 yards in 20 minutes. That gives you a pace of 1:20 per 100 yards and you can use this as your fastest pace for aerobic swims.

I don't think it's the water, I think it's the fact that 16-20 beats per second (i.e., 96-120) is probably too low for you. I think as long as you're under 25 you are probably staying in the aerobic zone where you want to be for your endurance and recovery swims. I know your max heart rate is supposed to decrease with age, but if you're like me you're not seeing this decrease. I can still get mine up to 200 easily. Maybe a better measure of whether you are swimming aerobically is whether you can maintain this pace indefinitely. Try doing a long swim of a set time, like a T20 (a 20 minute swim for distance). Let's say you swim 1500 yards in 20 minutes. That gives you a pace of 1:20 per 100 yards and you can use this as your fastest pace for aerobic swims. I don't have my "Mastering Swimming" book with me to refer to (I'm at work... :blush:), but the authors explained that the maximum heart rate used for swimming is less than dryland. I forgot the percentage, but when I calculated it, the beats per 10 seconds worked out to staying in the 16-20 range for their recommended recovery sets. So, assuming the authors of that book are correct, my max is supposed to be at 27 for my age and I should keep it between 16-20 for endurance/recovery days.

I don't have my "Mastering Swimming" book with me to refer to (I'm at work... :blush:), but the authors explained that the maximum heart rate used for swimming is less than dryland. I forgot the percentage, but when I calculated it, the beats per 10 seconds worked out to staying in the 16-20 range for their recommended recovery sets. So, assuming the authors of that book are correct, my max is supposed to be at 27 for my age and I should keep it between 16-20 for endurance/recovery days. I basically agree with Kirk.The recommended recovery heart rates are good for most people under most conditions namely the middle of the bell shaped curve.You in warm water might not fall into that group.I think a subjective sense of effort is also a good way to go.If it feels like a recovery swim it probably is.

I basically agree with Kirk.The recommended recovery heart rates are good for most people under most conditions namely the middle of the bell shaped curve.You in warm water might not fall into that group.I think a subjective sense of effort is also a good way to go.If it feels like a recovery swim it probably is. Whewww! Well, that's good to know. Thanks Kirk and Allen for at least making me feel better about this! I was very frustrated in my swim, today. I kept going slower and slower, but I still was in the 21-22 beat range. I'm sure a lot of it has to do with my heat intolerance issues that I just can't get around. The main thing is that it does feel like a recovery workout when I'm swimming my nice, steady, DPS 100's (7 strokes for per 25 yd breaststroke and 16 for free) with the :10 rest in between. By the time I finished, I felt so relaxed; almost like I had been meditating. Subjectively, I felt a lot better than what my heart rate was showing. So, I'm doing ok, afterall... :)

here's links to "Help My ____ is Horrible" kick, SDK & Speed they'll help you get faster Swim Faster Faster Allen, Michael, Ande: Many thanks for the response. The pace clocks where I swim are analog with skinny second hands; I have trouble reading them from any distance, especially quickly. I don't have a digital watch for the pool, but have resolved to get one. I'll look into the snorkel. Thirty years ago in high school I was around 23 flat in the 50 and 51ish in the 100 free; since my return to the pool in 2006 I'm stuck at high 27s and 1:02/3 in the 100. Seems I ought to be able to get under 27 and 1:00 in the 100. At the moment I'm less concerned about the 100 than the 50; I would just like to feel fast. Recent 25s feel faster, so I'm out to build on that. I have really invested in stroke improvement, now I want to convert that investment into lower times. I will try the more frequent sprinting with times to establish a baseline, then measure progress. The frequency suggestions are helpful; clearly I will have to become more focused about this to make progress. I'll report back when I have news. Ande, don't know if those times above provide enough information to identify goals for 25s, but if so I'm all ears. I do better with tangible measurements than atmospheric / sensory ones. Thanks again!

post them each week in the help my speed is horrible thread ande This has been really helpful. Ande, I will try the 25 improvement program you linked me to. Judd, I am ordering the finger watch today. I'll post results in a month or so...Thanks!

I just need to find the pocket of my stroke, y'know, where I feel comfortable going fast. It's hard to explain, just that point where I can keep good technique and still go fast.

This has been really helpful. Ande, I will try the 25 improvement program you linked me to. Judd, I am ordering the finger watch today. I'll post results in a month or so...Thanks!