The Drill Dictator proclaims:

Fanstone: So you are like Poolrat giving up running for swimming. It usually seems to work in the reverse. There are oodles of young kids swimming here and not that many running. Then, they grow up and the adults are all running and not as many swimming. Running here, as you know, is an obsession! I am going running today because, as you said, swimming does not combat flabbiness. Feeling flabby today.

i thought swimming was the best activity you can do for your body since it works all parts of your body? if it tightens up your muscles so well how does it not combat flabbiness? Interesting. Glad it works for me. :D Swimming definitely works all muscles and combats flabbiness, but as I said on another thread, I think running tightens things up and burns more calories. And according to a very controversial poster on this forum, GoodSmith, we are only supposed to worry about how we look, not whether we are fast. Since I am so very traditional, I am really worrying that I look nice for my husband. :joker: Back on topic, I like chest press fly and the caterpillar drill for undulation without amplitude. I also like one arm fly if you're making sure to chest press at the same time and it's a great warm up for fly. I also like underwater SDKs for fly with fins on. But this is all a waste. Solar says I should do no fly.

Fortress - How do you do the chest press fly drill?

Get rid of backstoke drills. I don't find they help my stroke much at all. Just my experience, of course. (If pressed, I would do double arm drill for hand placement, but that's all.) DanSad: (I hope you're not really sad) Chest press fly: On your stomach in the water hands at your side (preferably). Press in on your chest then release it. Your hips will come up. Try not to use your legs -- let everything else flow with the chest press. Breathe every few kicks getting a nice undulating motion. Make sure to initiate the action from the sternum not the legs. It is easiest and most helpful (I think) to do this drill with fins. Then you won't be as tempted to use your legs on the drill and it will help you to not sink. The point is to be moving forward rather than up and down.

Fortress, I've done worst in the past. I have written on an anesthesia forum that the patient gave birth and the "he" was doing fine. My primary language is Portuguese, where I spend most of my time and thinking, but my "mother's" tongue was good Southern English. The patient is a male noun in portuguese and can also be used as a neutral, no sex. If I type fast I might make that kind of mistake in English although I am right now thinking in English as I type. The word I would have used would be flippers, but I think in swimming the word often used is fins. I have no idea why I doubled the n. However, if the Finns I would be swimming with were like the few that I have seen, it would be a great pleasure, estetic wise. I'll finish by saying that I have a good friend that lives in Vienna, close to the airport, and another one about 50 miles away in Pasadena, MD. These are runner friends from the runnersworld.com who I actually met. I did run the Marine Corps Marathon twice in 97 and 99. I am now hooked onto swimming which hardens my muscles but doesn't make me slimmer. Take care, billy fanstone (Downing from Mississippi)

i thought swimming was the best activity you can do for your body since it works all parts of your body? if it tightens up your muscles so well how does it not combat flabbiness? Interesting. Glad it works for me. :D

(Fortress) I read a lot of stuff on the internet and don't remember where or who wrote what. I try some of it at the pool and some of the drills or pointers are quite satisfying and worthy. The butterfly drill goes something like this: do three dolphin kicks off the wall and then do one complete butterfly cycle and then do another three dolphins kicks (or undulations) and then freestyle to the end of the short pool (try to not breathe during the butterfly and kicking part). Next, as you get confortable just add more (two, three....) of the full butterflies. It is amazing that you might end up doing 500 yards or meters of this stuff where you will add up lots of butterfly time without going into butterstruggle or slow death. I am used to the snorkel as I do some of that from way back at the ocean or wherever. So I figured that what tires me most from leg drills, specifically the freestyle leg drills is the breathing part of them, it just stops the momentum. So with a mask and snorkel or a goggle and snorkel (whichever suits you, I think the mask is better) I will complete longer sets of freestyle leg drills. If I am doing dolphin kicks or frog kicks I don't need the breathing device as it hinders the movement and isn't that necessary. For those who are confortable with snorkels I strongly recommend their usage. Because we aren't training our darn lungs, but our legs! Take care, billy fanstone

i thought swimming was the best activity you can do for your body since it works all parts of your body? if it tightens up your muscles so well how does it not combat flabbiness? Interesting. Glad it works for me. :D By hard, I am talking about the muscles, all over, legs, shoulders, buns, and so forth. Yet, if I am not into a strict diet, and do some cycling or running or working the weight machines, I will stay where I am. Presently that is in the 220 zone. I want to lose at least 22 lbs to start with and then eventually get down to 85 kgs. Now, even when I was doing fairly high mileage, training for a marathon, I still weighed in the 200-210 zone. But over all swimming does trim down a little of the waist, while maintaining the weight. But I am talking of 4 to 5 times max per week, with 1800 to 2200 meters per session. To lose the belly pouch you must lose the fat that is inside you, adhered to your intestines and omentum, so that means losing weight not just stiffening muscles. I have colleagues at the swim place who are over 45 years old and maintain a skinny look and all the exercise they do is the swimming we do together. But they were blessed with better skinny genes. take care, billy fanstone

Can any one guess what I would do with the drill book. I am a whole stroke person.

Okay, I confess I like to swim with fins. ... I also occasionally take my mask and snorkel and do longer leg sets with finns. Take care, billy fanstone This is a risky confession. I think it is controversial. ;) I wish I could use that dorkel/snorkel thing. A lot of people seem to use it and like it. I think it would help, as you say, on long free sets. Oh yeah, I like that fly drill you spoke of too.