Should coaches teach cheating?

I am one of those travel soccer parents and travel team manager and a Masters swimmer. I would have loved for my daughter to have taken up competitive swimming but one of her friend's experiences pretty much turned her off. This friend swims non stop year round, doesnt have time for a sleep over, spends weeks in the summer at a swim camp 1000 miles away from home. She talks to my daughter nonstop about how upset her father,who swam competitively, will be with her if she doesnt improve. When I ask my daughter about swimming she says "Like so and so, no way". My daughter plays travel soccer and we were very careful about what coach we let coach her. It wasnt about is she good enough to make the team, for us it was is he good enough to spend time around my child shaping her self concept. Parents need to be far more choosey about who they let coach their children, versus thinking "oh, if she doesnt make this team at 2 and half she will never get that college scholarship". Our travel team parents are very vocal, but we cheer for every kid, even on the other teams, when they do something spectacular and when they are having a rough day. It is not uncommon when another coach is out of line and yells some stupid comment at a child, our parents in unison will respond with loud "ohhhh" sending our shock and disapproval quite loudly across the field. As to cheating, why would anyone teach a child, or adult for that matter, something she could be penalized for - sounds like the lazy or ignorant way out.

Since I'm from NASCAR country I might as well throw out the old quote "if you ain't cheating, you ain't tryin'." Now, go ahead and saddle up your high holy horses.

I think the coach is implying that it is very hard for the judge to see the dolphin kick after the dive so there is little chance of being DQ'd. I am not in favor of cheating. But many sports have a fine line between "gamesmanship" and cheating, such as offensive lineman holding in football. Some NFL players insist that it happens every play whether it is called or not.

I think we are talking about the point when you go from entry angle to horizontal. In that case, you are going to go from a hip extension position to a hip neutral position. How do you differentiate doing this legally and doing it illegally? What makes a kick a kick. Because in this case your hips will go from extended to neutral in either case.

I think that's right, Lindsay. It's hard to catch. I watched someone doing it myself and I couldn't see it. But there was too much splashing. And I wasn't looking for it because the comment came later. But is Michael Phelps' 3rd kick illegal under the rules?

Michael Phelps' 3rd kick illegal under the rules? It is not. The rule book does not address the number of kicks allowed per arm cycle as it does for the breaststroke, therefore any number of kicks is allowable. Regarding the breaststroke, I have seen several swimmers whose body wave make it appear that they are doing a dolphin immediately following the *** kick. If they are getting any propulsion from it then the swimmer should be disqualified. It is very hard to judge this because of the glare and surface turbulance and if there is any doubt it should not be called. But if it is obvious, then it is an infraction. In my opinion, any coach that would teach their swimmers to do this in order to gain an advantage, should be sanctioned.

In another thread I read that an unnamed USS coach was teaching using 2 dolphin kicks in breaststroke pullout,sneaking the first one in after the dive (like Kitajima did.) I had previously heard coaches teaching dolphin kick on the pullout before it was legal saying "I'll keep teaching it until they DQ it." What do you all think of this? Skip Kenney used to teach his breaststrokers how to dolphin kick all the time. Oops. Did I just say that?

there is no room in swimming (or in life) for cheating, in my book. as a USS coach, i would never ever encourage my kids to do something illegal in a race. never. i don't care if it means the difference between making a cut and not, i'm of the belief that getting to the next level by hard work (and some talent too) is much more satisfying than getting there by underhanded means. just my :2cents: exactly, and what if/when the kids get caught, they then scream and cry "But my coach taught me that!!" there will be some livid parents and coaches in big trouble.

My personal opinion, if there is proof that the coach is teaching "cheating" they should be suspended. And Geek.....I've always heard the saying this way: If you ain't cheatin'...you ain't tryin' If you get caught....you ain't tryin' hard enough!!!!!:rofl:

Leslie, maybe the second kick is like the third kick in Michael Phelp's fly that you mentioned in another thread, imperceptable and therefore non-DQable! :D