Freestyle Stroke Question

I have learned alot from Terry's posts versus George's which seem to only reflect on the theme of "we always did it that way". If someone posts we pea at the swallow end of the pool before our sprint workouts, I'm sure a comment would be coming about how they did it in 1955. Nobody really cares how they use to do it. For those of us who swimming is just a little appetizer before the real sports start, Terry's comments seem to help how to expend as little energy as possible. :rofl:

It seems to me it is your way or no way, but am I reading wrong again. Swimming is not all about feel of the water, or what the angle of the toe is. Some are not flexible some are very flexible. I want you to stay here and it is not a bashing or against the TI system as far as I am concerned. I like most of your stuff it is gleaned from some of the greats, Lindsay loves the super tech stuff, there are other things that are important. Desire, even a terrible looking swimmer who breaks all the rules of physics, with their cross over strokes and their terrible kicks can become winners. It seems to me a critic of anything you say is a bash, well it is not. It maybe that you come accross as a know it all that you have a few critics. Even at my age I am still learning.

But a baseball player is pushing his foot against a solid surface. Just an observation: Water is not solid but it does have a resistance to it. Admittedly far less than pushing against a solid, but it will allow to you briefly use force against it before it moves away. It seems to me that both sides of this debate aren't so far apart except in terminology and its usage. The five things you should never discuss in polite company: religion, politics, cats vs dogs, Ginger vs. Maryanne and swim technique. -LBJ

It really doesn't matter to me what you believe or teach, since that's your own business, and I feel no obligation to try to persuade you otherwise. But I don't think it's too much to ask to be quoted or cited accurately. An accurate quote but a (bits and peices quote). I don't care what you teach either and I feel no obligation to persuade you otherwise. I am not even asking you to get out of town.

Beat that dead horse! :shakeshead: I am far from a swimming expert but this topic is being overanalyzed. There is no right or wrong, black or white, on or off in swimming. More than one style of swimming or variation of technique can grasp a WR at any given time. Case in point, Phelps and Crocker. Both are neck and neck in the fly races but yet they swim the stroke differently. For instance, Phelps goes against "the experts" and breathes every stroke. He is doing it "wrong" according to many but yet he is in WR territory. What works for one might not work for another.

The five things you should never discuss in polite company: religion, politics, cats vs dogs, Ginger vs. Maryanne and swim technique. -LBJ I did not think we were in polite company.

Just an observation: Water is not solid but it does have a resistance to it. Admittedly far less than pushing against a solid, but it will allow to you briefly use force against it before it moves away. It seems to me that both sides of this debate aren't so far apart except in terminology and its usage. Well summarized Leonard. Thanks. And yes the reason why I continue to believe in core body rotation generated power is the one you just mentionned : Water does have enough resistance to have solid anchor points in it. Thanks (nice to meet you by the way)

Years ago I lost interest in the r.s.s newgroup because I tired of endless angels-on-the-head-of-a-pin discussions that shed no light on how or why movements work or don't. And the longer they go on, the more theoretical and abstract they seem to become. So my attempt to engage you in a serious discussion regarding one of your theories (and theories are meant to be challenged) prompts this dismissive response? Are we to assume that you are unable to explain how a swimmer can "weight shift" in a manner analogous to a land-based athlete (who has the benefit of a solid surface)? This is a concept which you have emphasized here on this forum and elsewhere (in your books); now it is an "angels-on-the-head-of-a-pin discussion" because it is being questioned. If we are discussing swimming technique, it is not a trivial point. Does our power derive from our shoulders, as many believe, or should we focus on "weight shift" as you are proposing?

I have learned alot from Terry's posts versus George's which seem to only reflect on the theme of "we always did it that way". If someone posts we pea at the swallow end of the pool before our sprint workouts, I'm sure a comment would be coming about how they did it in 1955. Nobody really cares how they use to do it. For those of us who swimming is just a little appetizer before the real sports start, Terry's comments seem to help how to expend as little energy as possible. :rofl: Well put. I hope I'm never in the swallow end of any pool.

I have learned alot from Terry's posts versus George's which seem to only reflect on the theme of "we always did it that way". If someone posts we pea at the swallow end of the pool before our sprint workouts, I'm sure a comment would be coming about how they did it in 1955. Nobody really cares how they use to do it. For those of us who swimming is just a little appetizer before the real sports start, Terry's comments seem to help how to expend as little energy as possible. :rofl: Easy to understand your thoughts as I understand you are really not intersted in swimming. It is not a sport to you. Expend little energy win none. !955 was not the end I raced til 1998 and have coached and taught to this day and have kept up the tech side and learning still. But the kick does not control the whole stroke.....