Freestyle Stroke Question

3) Shoulder joint adduction and downward scapular motion means that shoulder and arm muscles are used mainly to maintain the arm in a leveraged position, while trunk/core muscles move the body over the arm's anchor point. As this occurs, the elbow moves from a tipped-out position toward the body. Actually, adduction means that the humerus is moving toward the midline of the body (the "insweep"). I don't agree with the concept that the arm is functioning as a lever in a liquid medium, with forward motion generated by the trunk/core muscles.

You can do all the weight shifting you want but if you do not exert pressure on the water with the hands and arms you will not move forward.

1. The muscles in our arms and shoulders are relatively small. It makes sense to me that their best use is to hold the limb in position, rather than accelerate that limb against resistance. 2. If you can effectively anchor -- i.e. make your hand "stand still" rather than move back -- you have a "lever" of sorts to provide traction while you use some other means (than pushing water back) to move forward. 3. Weight shifts are the most powerful form of athletic movement and are present in every sports movement from throwing or hitting anything to roller blading or x-c skiing to running, even high-jumping using the Fosbury Flop. 4. We have the potential to use them in swimming, side-to-side weight shifts in free and back, front-to-back weight shifts in fly and ***. This is one of your concepts which I have to question. "Weight shifts" occur in other sports because we are on solid ground, not in a liquid medium. I do not believe the same principles apply to swimming. Again, Silvia referred to shoulder adduction--active movement of the humerus toward the midline--not "anchoring" the arm in the water. I think the emphasis on "weight shifts" is misleading and erroneous. On the other hand, physics was never my best subject.

I think part of the problem here is one of communication, not physics. Coaches strive to get across to swimmers what they want done and how they want it done- by analogy rather than blackboard proof and one swimmer's response to a successful analogy is another's puzzled look & poorly done drill. I think Terry is trying to describe something that works for him (& others) by analogy rather than set up a kinesiological study.

We all talk of this imaginary wall I always use it when teaching. But is really not there and we cannot really hold it but we can push on it and if we push too hard we do slip a little but the actual pounds per sq. in. pressure during the catch to finish phase is between 22 to 25 lbs per sqare inch, so you must push on the water. Not with your toe movement but the leverage of the back muscles through to the hands.

No I did not miss that, you are allowed to tell it anyway you wish. But being a person who has raced 200 miles a year and trained a few more and have been told by the great coaches you have mentioned before and a few others, and discovering my own feel for the water. I think I am allowed to state what I think and I do not have to accept what you say as gospel. The 22 to 25 lbs pressure per sq inch is from a person who knows the egineering and mechanics of the crawl stroke.

As you trap the water with your right hand and forearm, your left side is raised at or above the surface where it has a lot of potential energy. As you spear the left arm forward, that side drives down "catapulting" you past your grip. No muscular force can match that. I'm confused by this description as it conflicts with my knowledge of physics. Does potential energy really play a significant role here? Is muscular force really outmatched in this situation or is it more a matter of which muscles you are using? Perhaps momentum is involved in the way it is when one "cheats" lifting weights? :confused:

The day that I swam so well,by my standerds, I was concentrating on rotating from the hips. I had been rotating from the shoulders which was not generating any power and was throwing my timing off in addition to causing pectorial pain. To perform the rotation I would use an extra beat in my kick to initate the turn. I would purposely hold my arm out for the catch and then pull thru anchoring my pull using my abdominal muscles. I also increased my intervals to an even minute for each 50 and did no distance over a 100, except for my warm up. This was very easy to use 1 miniute intervals. Suggetions? Paul

Am I reading corectly here that we should throw out the fulcrum theory in swimming??? Silvia told me the arms above the shoulders even when they are at your hips. What I call the fulcrum theory.

I think part of the problem here is one of communication, not physics. Coaches strive to get across to swimmers what they want done and how they want it done- by analogy rather than blackboard proof and one swimmer's response to a successful analogy is another's puzzled look & poorly done drill. I think Terry is trying to describe something that works for him (& others) by analogy rather than set up a kinesiological study. I agree that an explanation of how it should feel is usually more useful than getting too technical, my point is that using technical language, such as referring to potential energy due to a raised shoulder, is counterproductive if it isn't correct. Sorry to be pedantic, I found the followup explanation much more illuminating. And I am trying to apply this stuff to my own swimming so I am grateful for Terry's ongoing participation on the forums.