I realize this thread will create a lot of controversy.
Over the past five years I have worked very hard to develop clubs and increase membership in USMS. The very fabric of my work and others in this area is building relationships and comradairre within the LMSC and or Club. Small clubs and large teams are proud of their "elite" swimmers and boast of their successes. With this said, it is very disturbing to me as I read through the FINA World Championships Physch Sheets to see the number of elite swimmers "jumping ship" to other clubs to swim on "elite" relays. If USMS had "Team USMS" I would have no problem with everyone coming together for a team effort. I don't have a problem with four guys coming together who swam in college using the Worlds as reunion of sorts. Where I have problem is the swimmer or swimmers who have been a member of a club or LMSC for years and because of individual egos leaves his team. What this says to me is our "elite" swimmers ego is more important than his or her club. How do you think the other 3 swimmers who normally swims on the relay with the "elite" swimmer feels. We are good enough througout the year, however we are not good enough for the Worlds. Instead of swimming for his or her club so all members of the club can be proud of the "elite" swimmers accomplishments, it is more important to this swimmer he or she represent someone else at the Worlds for personal gratification. If the relay team does win and breaks a WR the record does not show USMS as the record holder, but the name of a club the swimmer transferred too.... what a shame...
It is regretable I bring up this discussion, but it tears at the very fabric of the USMS mission regarding building club or LMSC relationships...I realize what these swimmers are doing is within the rules.. I just think it is wrong.
Mel
Former Member
Is he a draft dodger? Opps no draft dodgers anymore...
your relays not the Rapp sisters. Records for hire I guess that is the name of the game. I guess its like hathery trout vs. native if you can discern the difference!!!
Originally posted by TheGoodSmith
Now, if it was Solar System Masters Championships, we'd certainly recruit from other countries....
Of course Team Jupiter would have an unfair advantage, being accustomed to swimming under intense pressure.
Once again, we get to read comments in this discussion forum from people who used to be the fastest kid in the pool, and now they're not, and now they want a rule out-lawing the people who beat them (or are likely to beat them, or could conceivably beat them if someone takes this to its illogical extreme).
OH PUHLEASE! One of the attractions of Masters (for me anyway) is that we are loosey-goosey about a lot of things and not hung up on "fairness." If Tall Paul and his South West Conference buddies want to form a relay for the purpose of having a reunion and swimming fast, go for it (as if 99% of us have any chance of winning that race in their absence). If someone in USMS gets the attitude that "winning" in the only thing that matters (for a piece of medal comparable to one you could find at the thrift store for a buck), and wants to do all this crazy stuff to make it happen; that's bad and not Masterish. What would be worse is a lot of nutty rules, and exceptions to the rules, and drug tests, etc. etc. that would disallow far more legitimate swims just for fun than would stop actual "cheating."
Matt S
P.S. Oh Tall One, you've still not said anything about your availability on Sunday evening for chilled, malted beverages.
Wow! did I touch a nerve or something. It seems I have ruffled some feathers.
I am overwhelmed by the enthusasium, the energy, and the passion that many of you have shown in replying to this thread.
First, as I said in my original comments, swimmers " Jumping" from one club to another to put together an "elite" relay is totaling within the rules. I just think it is wrong. However, if FINA allowed countries to put together country teams e.g. "Team USMS" that would be fine, but that is not the rule and therefore we must swim as clubs. Since most of you don't like the rule and think in the FINA World Championships we should swim as countries in Team Events (Relays) then change it. I want to see Mr Abrahams and his new found bonded friends, and John Smith (Team Whore) at the USMS Convention in Dearborn, Michigan in September. I want them to contact Rob Copeland, USMS President, and ask them to put them on the USMS International Committee and when he does show the same passion and reason for swimming the relays to help change the rule. So....if you are passioned about change then do something about it. Do you vote when there is an election or do you say my vote dosen't count and taxes will go up any way and I will find a way to get an extra deduction to make up the difference. If you want change you have to work for it, just don't find an easy way around the rule to accomplish your own personal goals.
Now that I know there is a "Team Whore", I hope you break the record you are seeking, however I have 3 guys on my team and with you we could break any record you set.....So I will be looking for your registration in 2007 to be on the YMCA Indy SwimFit team.
Mel
Originally posted by Mel
I realize this thread will create a lot of controversy. Well Mel it looks like you were right.
While I personally believe that a club should generally be a group of people who train together, I fully recognize the rights of USMS members to form and join clubs of their choosing. It is not against our rules, it is not a loophole and it is not cheating. Lindsay, I can’t speak for your rules in Canada, but here in the USA we allow freedom of choice.
If John is of the opinion that, “…it's about connecting with old friends, enjoying masters swimming…” how can you fault this? We are all entitled to our opinions.
As for breaking records, long ago when I was fast and masters records were slow I learned that nobody owns a record, the best you can do is break them. So if Team TYR breaks a record, good for them. Don’t worry, someday someone else will come along and break these.
Originally posted by Rich Abrahams
Kokkole, you just made my day with your "VERY HOT" male 200+ medley relay.
I'm swimming on a 200+ male medley relay that could easily be criticized (by those who care) as cherry picking elite swimmers in order to establish a new standard. However, the other 3 swimmers on the relay probably wouldn't have gotten to swim on any realys at Worlds without switching their LMSC to mine. Also, I've totally bonded with two of these teamates over the years and it has been a long standing desire to swim together as buddies.
Anyway, look for the older guys wearing our relay motto T-shirts ("RELEASE THE HOUNDS") and say hello. A post relay beer may be in order.
Rich
oooops - sorry Rich, i expressed myself wrong. :rolleyes: (again...)
this relay is age 120. they will be swimming the 200 medley relay.
you guys will be out in front of the crowd on your own!!
I'll tell the guys to look for you for the beer anyway, OK?
By the way, I think it would be fun for the relays to be made up of athletes of the same country, instead of the same team. What do you all think of that? So, there would be USA relay teams, Canada relay teams, Italy relay teams. That way the top masters swimmers could represent their countries without having to turn their backs on the teams where they usually swim. It would also allow countries to be represented by their top masters swimmers.
Ciao!
