I realize this thread will create a lot of controversy.
Over the past five years I have worked very hard to develop clubs and increase membership in USMS. The very fabric of my work and others in this area is building relationships and comradairre within the LMSC and or Club. Small clubs and large teams are proud of their "elite" swimmers and boast of their successes. With this said, it is very disturbing to me as I read through the FINA World Championships Physch Sheets to see the number of elite swimmers "jumping ship" to other clubs to swim on "elite" relays. If USMS had "Team USMS" I would have no problem with everyone coming together for a team effort. I don't have a problem with four guys coming together who swam in college using the Worlds as reunion of sorts. Where I have problem is the swimmer or swimmers who have been a member of a club or LMSC for years and because of individual egos leaves his team. What this says to me is our "elite" swimmers ego is more important than his or her club. How do you think the other 3 swimmers who normally swims on the relay with the "elite" swimmer feels. We are good enough througout the year, however we are not good enough for the Worlds. Instead of swimming for his or her club so all members of the club can be proud of the "elite" swimmers accomplishments, it is more important to this swimmer he or she represent someone else at the Worlds for personal gratification. If the relay team does win and breaks a WR the record does not show USMS as the record holder, but the name of a club the swimmer transferred too.... what a shame...
It is regretable I bring up this discussion, but it tears at the very fabric of the USMS mission regarding building club or LMSC relationships...I realize what these swimmers are doing is within the rules.. I just think it is wrong.
Mel
Former Member
Originally posted by Paul Smith
Mel,
I consider you a friend and have the utmost respect for you and your opinions as always. I will however disagree and in my own humble opinion see the glass here as "half full" vs. "half empty".
My position has always been that this is the world championships and thus should be a competition held between countries not clubs....just as in USS. Fina on the other hand has a rule that does not allow this to happen, one I hope will be changed down the road.
I'd very much like to see USMS grow, in all areas that we represent; fitness, competition, etc. etc. and I beleive that publicity helps. Not a lot of interest in our media in swimmig to begin with and with Boulder Aquatic masters relays challenging Club Chelsea it would probably be much the same.....however Team USA 160+ up against Team Australia 160+ in the 200 free relay sounds pretty good!
I will be at Stanford proudly swimming for Team TYR along with some friends and competitors that I may or may not ever swam with back in college.....not for ego as you see it, but getting a chance to be a team mate with someone I've never had that chance with before.
As for my club mates back home, if they would prefer that I not be allowed to come back and swim for them next year I'll grant that wish. I've explained to anyone who's asked why I made the decision and have had 100% support....most understood that there is no team scoring at worlds so I haven't taken points away.
And as far as leaving 3 swimmers behind, I see it as a chance for a 4th swimmer who has never been on our relay to have that chance at an incredible meet such as this.....half full!
PS: Indeed some of our foreign friends are banding together as well.....
Good argument.
It is obviously a very personal and individual decision to make and not everybody is going to agree regardless of which path you choose.
Mel,
P-LEASE. This argument is ridiculous and childish. If Paul, Greg Rhodenbaugh, Rich Saeger and I want to try to break a World Record in one or two of the relays at Worlds, who would really oppose this effort? My god it's hard enough to find 4 guys our own age to show up at nationals let alone 4 very fast guys. We've all known each other at one level or another for over a quarter of a century. 6 months ago we got on the phone and tried to make something amusing and worthwhile happend at Worlds. It keeps us motivated in a small way. None of us wants to be the fat slow poke on the relay. Really, I mean what kind of person would outright oppose us getting together for this kind of an event ? I have met no one that has opposed our intended effort so far. The fact that we had to go unattached and then join another team to make it happen is just an administrative a pain in the butt. USMS should allow all USMS swimmers to represent a Team USMS at Worlds automatically.
Mel, this is going to be an amusing and entertaining event for all of us. We all laughed and smiled when Rowdy dove in for Colorado Masters with Paul, Robert-Paul and I to break the 200yd free relay at Indy several years ago. It was a lot of fun to see Rowdy swim fast again. It's the same thing here at Worlds.
I have been a "team whore" in the past and swum for Dallas Aquatic Masters, Longhorn Masters, unattached, and Colorado Masters. I will continue to swim with my friends.... regardless.
John Smith
OK it's sour grapes,but MY relay WR was beaten last year by a cherry picked relay. If you want to know who doesn't like the idea ask the team that maybe waited 3 years for everyone to be the right age for a shot at a WR(which maybe the only time in their lives they could set a WR) only to be beaten by 4 swimmers who only know each other from Top Ten Times.
Ringers have allways been around. I swam in a boy scout meet when I was a kid, our team won, I was not a boy scout. I swam for the Hamilton Sea Cadets against swimmers from other sea cadet teams I was not a Sea Cadet. My brother Bob Swam for MacMaster U Theological school he did not go there. I swam for London YMCA a town 90 miles from Hamilton at Yale University pool I was a ringer I never even belonged to the Y.
They stack the teams at the Master meets in Canada, Allstar teams against club teams. Provice against province. You can never stop the desire to win although in the Master meet I swam for the local team.
Our relay teams came 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th behind the loaded teams. Guess what we still had fun. And I won a $200 door prize.
Originally posted by Paul Smith
PS: Indeed some of our foreign friends are banding together as well.....
in my country (Italy) this is not allowed according to national federation rules. all the relays that you see at the worlds will be teams that have been racing together during the past season. there will be at least one VERY HOT male 200 medley relay.
where are the relay psych sheets? I can't find them.
thanks!
Does the U.S. get hammered in forums for brining ringers to the Olympics?
No
Rock on guys/gals, I hope you smash the record for USMS and if it spurs others (countries) to do the same, Great News. At least we will be able to see the best swim against the best.
Then we will have a competition (Worlds) as close as we can get to the actual Olympics.
More records- more international competition = more public exposure / Master Swimmers.
I have been on a few relays which were pure right from my own team and have lost world records to these "special hand picked" teams before and will probably lose a couple at World's. Tell me would that make you happy, you "Colorado studs", if the shoe was on the other foot???
Frank,
Rich Saeger swims for Team TYR out in California, and we all needed a neutral team to join for the relays so we figured since there were no team points being scored at Worlds this made obvious sense.
TYR of course wants us to wear their equipment which we will do gladly. They are not giving us anything more than some swimwear products in order to attend the meet jointly.
John Smith
